SVR Loco Newsy News / discussions

www.82045.org.uk , no comma after 82045!

 

Are you a troll? I recall that the last time you discussed the BR Class 3 was your nonsense about the number of spokes in a driving wheel.
82045MS's post indicates that the Class 3s were comfortable with 5 or 6 bogies.

 

Oooops! Sorry, in a rush as usual.

regards

 

Well I wasn't being negative. The Cardiff Valleys were, and are, full of nasty gradients and curvature in an area noted for its rainfall. The Class 3s were fine on other work and capable of a fine turn of speed, particularly on the Vale of Glamorgan line, where the stations were wider spaced. I have yet to beat 11mins 17secs; Llantwit Major - Bridgend start to stop, with five on. I've forgotten the number but it was certainly painted plain green at the time. The nearest has been 11mins 34sec with a pair of 143s, a couple of weeks ago.

It will be nice to see one again.

Meic

 

No, I'm not a troll, but you haven't yet replied to my question about how you calculated the t.e of the various varients of 2-6-2T, GW and BR, nor have you been able to rebut my suggestion that the performance of these varients was actually very similar, no matter the variations in t.e. There are photos available of both GW and BR 2-6-2T engines trailing 8 coaches and it is my belief that given the moderate gradients of the SVR the new engine will do nicely on the railway.

As to the last sentence of your post, if the loco will pull 8, then it follows, doesn't it, that it will be comfortable with 5 or 6.

 

Thank you sir!

Best regards.

 

Can't be bothered arguing any more. You seem to have a knack of getting on people's nerves on this forum.

 

As the NYMR has been used as a comparartor here, may I add a comment or two. We tend to run 7s, although the non-Whitby Blood and Custard set was 6 for much of the summer and the 2 Whitby sets both saw days running at 8 and still having insufficient seays. We have run 10s in the past, but only 3672 could manage those unaided! Loadings can vary but one day in early August, it took until the 3rd train for the number of passengers ex-Pickering to not exceed the seating capacity and then the 12:00 (4th train) was also fully loaded. But by lunch time, trains would be all but empty as was the first off Grosmont.

The maximum for locos has been dropped slightly in order to conserve loco life. 80135 has taken 9 unaided up the bank and 14 (!) from Pickering (not a service train, I would add) but I think Steve will bear testament that even the Class 5s need more factor for them than against on the 8 coach diner (which weighs a good 8.5 with 4 heavy Pullmans).

The SVR have similar considerations - the Limited dining train will, I presume, usually be 8 and the Venturer is 2 vehicles added to a standard set. Using large locos is fine but requires good skill from the fireman to avoid excessive coal bills - and with coal costing about 250% plus of what it did just 5 years ago, that is a major factor! Adaptable, mid-range locos that can handle larger loads but also are economical on shorter trains are the best suited. Other locos can justify being "non-optimum" due to commercial appeal etc.

On the subject of "quick wins" - Steve is right that you end up with the really costly overhauls but the facts of loco availability and hire costs do tend to mean that the "easy wins" are tackled first. I suspect that there may have to be a major change in the view of overhauls,. how they are done and funded in coming years. It is a subject I spend a lot of time talking and thinking about and I'm no engineer, but railways as opposed to individuals or smaller owning groups will have a potential advantage in that they can better (but certainly not easily) fund more extensive work to reduce future overhauls. The question of "repair or stuff" has already arisen with 45428 and this locos has had one of the most extensive boiler rebuilds yet attempted. Yes, it cost (over £ 1/2 million for the full overhaul) but the boiler life has effectively been reset. This was the aim behind the work and that doesn't come from a bean-counter but our Engineering Consultant, a former BR regional CME. As both locos and their owners age and more extensive work is needed, but the opportunity arises to do that fully and save costs next time around, the world of heritage railways will change. I suspect we will find the last couple of decades a "golden age" of loco numbers and varioety but many locos will be working harder than they have since BR days, as some already do.

Steven

 

To put it into perspective, a Black 5 dragging an 8 coach diner up the 1 in 49 is about the equivalent tractive effort requirement of the same loco dragging 14 coaches up the steeper part of Shap. Not impossible, but something you shouldn't regularly plan for.

 

I agree we should agree to differ, time will tell which of us is correct on this matter.

 

Just on the general issue of running engines to the end of their ticket and being totally knackered, ( and at the risk of being accused of trying to tell them "how to do it"...) Isn't the ideal to do what Ian Riley appears to do with his 5's, ie a heavy intermediate at five years, so that an engine might arrive at the end of its ticket but is in need of "either" the bottom end doing or the boiler, but not both?
Back to the armchair....

 

Bean Counter: Rather than flog engines up the hill, do you not consider bankers on the heaviest trains, diesel or steam, just to take some of the pressure off the lead engine? Or does having a banker available bring its own problems, ie another crew ( and locomotive) to roster who probably dont get fully utilised on the day?

 

Drivers can request bankers, and these do tend to be planned for 8 cars with a Class 4 if possible - for example, the Manor had diesel assistance on The Moorlander Pullman lunch train last Saturday and Sunday. There are, as Steve will be able to give more informed detail on, many factors affecting whether a banker is needed or not and either the MPD, the driver or Control on the day may decide to use one.

Certainly, unless there is a loco on personal needs brake at Grosmont, an extra driver is needed (some-one was called in to do the diesel last weekend) and then there is detaching a pure banker at Goathland and pathing abck down to Grosmont. The path is readily available after the next Down service, but it eats into any break and time available for taking water and/or coal, which can cause knock on delays.

Totally agree with you on "the Riley Method" - and it is a view from many engineers as well as from an armchair! With our Standards, it is the NYMR plan going foreard (which is why 76079 will have boiler work over the coming months while the cylinder is being replaced). However, it can take a brave engineer to tell us bean-counters that he wants to pull a loco for a year to do preventative work when it could for that year run and save hire costs!

Apologies to the SVR for hi-jacking their thread!

Steven

 

I think that we'd love to be in a postion to have a regular banking turn. We might get back to 8 coach trains as a routine in peak season, then. I't's long been talked about as an ideal job for the Lambton tanks when they are back in traffic. There's always plenty of shunting to do at Grosmont to occupy a pilot loco, as well, so they wouldn't be sat around. It is also seen as an ideal job for newly qualified footplate staff. However, it does require additional crew and, based on volunteers doing one day a week, that's an extra seven crews. The reality is, it would require more.

There's also the cost implication and no doubt the Bean Counter would want his say!

Mods; it might be sensible to move a few of these posts to the NYMR general discussion thread.

 

Rumour has it that a standard class 4 tank from wales will be at the valley to cover santa specials this year. I have little doubt this will be followed by another loco for the summer season or if things are tight with money more diesel running perhaps there would be value in reinstating a hydraulic to steam heat or putting back into operation the electric train heating on the mk1 s which had it fitted to make possible diesel use on santa specials.

 

It takes years to build up a reputation for a quality product and about half an hour to destroy that reputation.

Following this suggestion would do just that

 

You clearly haven't got a clue about how much it would cost to do that along with the subsequent maintainance.

 

There may well be merit in ensuring that a diesel or two have steam heat boilers fitted (the GWSR currently have a 47xxx fitted with a 37xxx being restored/repaired with that capability) - however as other posters have already said - the Santa Specials are not the time to be using them with the possible exception of pre-service carriage warming.

Stephen
GWSR Fireman

 

Your post stinks, especially the highlighted parts. It is obvious by your user name that you are a diesel freak. There is no need to drag the SVR down to your level.