svr speed limits

Speed limits are there for a purpose and to me as a passenger, anything over the limit is dangerous. Trains can be lethal if driven irresponsibly. I would sooner trust the judgement of those who impose the speed limits than the judgement of a showboating driver.
As you were present on the Mid Hants on one of days in question in an official capacity, you will be in an ideal position to assess my amateur judgement of the speed of that train.
The reason I am posting is a concern with safety and with the reputation of our railways.
Incidentally, how have I contradicted myself in my earlier post?

 

My point being if people continue to shout about such speeds (and even then only alleged) whats to stop the HMRI say enough and imposing TPWS & OTMR on all light railway operations ? costs to infrastructure and rolling stock would skyrocket and many smaller operations unable to afford the costs would be forced to close, do you really want that scenario thanks to a bit of Internet Speculation ?, if any speeding did happen then the individuals involved will be dealt with, shouting about it here helps no one.

 

About time that this thread returned to the title topic of SVR speed limits - rather than becomming a slanging match re happenings elswhere!

 

I think that HMRI would need new legislation to impose TPWS, OTMR, etc. They have enough weaponry available to stamp out any cases of speeding, as it is.

 

TPWS is a legal requirement by Act of Parliament and this includes an exemption (actually, I think, from being classed as a "railway undertaking"!) of lines operating at up to 25mph.

The situation is similar for rolling stock without central door locks (i.e. automatic exemption up to 25mph). The bolts fitted to mainline Mark 1 and early Mark 2 stock (and original bolts fitted Pullman stock) are all to achieve exemptions from this legal requirement. Similarly, Act of Parliament has made use of Mark 1 (or earlier) rolling stock to convey passengers illegal but with exemptions available. These also carry conditions. Again, operating at no more than 25mph over non-Network Rail infrastructure grants automatic exemption.

OTMR is not a legal requirement. It is a requirement of Railway Group Standards, administered by the Rail Safety and Standards Board. Cases for exemption from Group Standards can be made and indeed, operation of any steam locomotive on Network Rail infrastructure requires around 80 exemptions!

There are one or two oddities in the "system". I have been told that the Wensleydale Railway, as infrastructure on long term lease from Network Rail, are subject to the Office of Rail Regulation scales of track access charges for carrying freight over the line, but I don't know if this means the line is treated as "Network Rail Infrastructure" for the purposes of TPWS, OTMR etc. Wensleydale trains do carry the high intensity headlamps required by Group Standards.

BTW, was the original aim of this thread to ask about speed restrictions on the SVR within the 25mph general limit (the SVR did have a higher limit for ECS Class 175/180 testing a few years ago)?

Steven

 

That's nothing to do with the lack of steam and everything to do with
A poor line-up
No roster information available in advance
Far too many freight paths
Far too many DMU paths
EDs doing practically everything else!

So noone knew what was happening until they turned up and then found not much of interest!

As for speeds great idea to go on about it on a public forum brilliant idea! Just get up to 25mph and make some noise in the process!!

 

This is solely due to major disorganisation on the Mid Hant's part rather than any other factor.

I believe that previous MHR Diesel events until their cancellation made large profits - and why shouldn't they have? They fulfilled every 'tickbox' for diesel events:-

- Exciting visiting traction
- Excellent timetable and loco rostering, giving locos turns respective of their popularity.
- NO FREIGHT!
- Excellent information availability before and during the event.
- Commitment to stick to advertised timetable/roster.

Unfortunately the 2009 event revoked all of the above. With Diesel Enthusiasts, the above list are the ingredients for a sucessful event. For the MHR to turn about face on almost every factor is madness - and the attendance in May proved this outright.

With little information provided before the gala, a poor timetable, and the roster going out of the window alongside other major issues, is it any wonder that the May 2009 gala was poorly attended? The MHR shot itself in the foot in a variety of ways which is suprising considering their past Diesel Gala sucesses.

The MHR still has the potential to put on a fantastic gala as it did in the past - it just needs to hark back to the days of the 'Trainspotter's Ball' galas of the early 2000s rather than the shambles that was this years event.

 

Schedule 1 of the Railway Safety Regulations 1999 does exclude any railway, the maximum speed of which is less than 40 kmph, from the requirements to fit TPWS. I'm not sure who has the powers to amend a schedule to the regulations but I don't think it is within the powers of HMRI, or indeed the ORR; hence my comment that there would need to be a change of legislation although I accept that legislation may not be the correct word!

 

Speed limits are there for any number of reasons, often relating to passenger comfort rather than safety. There is inevitably a margin between the defined official speed limit and the safe speed limit. A statement such as "anything over the limit is dangerous" is inherrently false.

In the case of our nation's heritage railways, there are some on which 25mph is artificially limiting what the track, trains and signalling are technically capable of, and others where 25mph would be far too fast. A "one size fits all" solution is inevitably a compromise, and some common sense is needed before making sweeping statements such as the above.

Should we mention the fact that many steam engines don't even have speedos?

I could go on, but it seems to be somewhat off-topic for the thread...

Phil

 

I personally feel that this thread should be locked as it is quite inflamatory and could be seen to cause trouble!