Swanage Railway General Discussion

Without comment on the specifics, I would just observe that the whole sector relies upon mutual support. A totally commercial decision taken in the spirit that you suggest risks generating a loss of trust from future hirers if (when?) the boot is on the other foot and traction is in short supply.


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A valid point. However the Swanage Railway has already taken this approach with 34072 and 34053, mutually agreeing to terminate the hire agreement early. This seems to have been done in a way that has retained trust with SLL and not adversely impacted their relationship.

 

So the raiway is facing a £700k shortfall over the next 2 years? That is certainly a lot of money.

How much of this I wonder is down to passenger numbers only being 75% since covid? And the next question is, how much of that is down to the railway charging more yet running less steam and having a irregular service pattern over summer.

If they can't afford Wareham, what is the point of the 121/117? As next year we should have the 3TC set back which will increase the low utilisation of the two 33s. The DMUs really wouldn't have any services to run!

Looking at the agreement of the 3 Moguls, Does the railway have to restored the other two or just be responsible for it if they do choose to?

As for running fleets,
T3, T9, M7, N, 2 x U, 4MT, 2 x Bulleid
Ideally the railway needs at least 3 working locos, longer term surly the best looking option would be to bin off the N and the U. And mainly focus on Southern Locomotives being able to supply 2 running locos per year.

Side note, looking at the T3 loco sales, only 6 people have booked the mid day Sunday service! Are the T3 services actually making ANY money for the railway??

 

Flip that statement on its head:
What's the point of the 3TC? With the 117/121 they don't need to fire up a bigger loco like a 33 and they can choose between single or 2 car railcars depending on demand, without having to do a lot of shunting/uncoupling/recoupling to shorten the 3TC.
The 3TC really wouldn't have any services to run!
I think this comes back to some railways having too much stock and trying to be everything to everyone. Pick a relatively short period of time to represent, try to get appropriate stock and run a good service that the public want. Trying to be a victorian steam railway, while also trying to represent diesels and electrics up to the '80s? is never going to work, especially with Swanage's lack of storage and the industry wide drop in volunteers.

 

Very well said Keith,
Looking how long its taken to get a 3TC set up and running, one does wonder if there was any point, as you said, currently if it doesn't go to Wareham there are no services for it. Swanage don't even run any evenings diesel services anymore. Perhaps the biggest white elephant on the railway?

 

Look at it another way. Hasn’t it been funded by a separate group - the 4 TC group? So the railway gets a new set of restored coaches to use at minimal cost to itself?

 

There were some interesting comments made at the NYMR AGM. One was that the fuel costs for a steam locomotive were around £1100/day, compared to ca. £300 for a diesel; the second was that most (presumably non-enthusiast) passengers don't mind diesel haulage - provided that they get to see (and presumably the opportunity to ride behind a steam loco in the course of their visit. If that is generally true and not specific to the NYMR then I think we'll ee a lot more one diesel/one steam days, in which case the 4TC set could be a valuable asset.

 

In which economic reality in a world of high inflationary pressures does running more trains for a lower price produce a benefit?
I would imagine the DMU will operate a second service on shoulder period days as happened before Covid, it is just the shoulder period may be smaller and may also be used as the second service in the summer.
From what I have seen around the railway for the TC to be running next year there is going to be a mind blowing amount of work done over the winter then.
You also appear to be in the "just tear up the contract" camp regarding the Moguls. Where would you expect the legal fees to come from for the subsequent court case?
You keep implying prices have increased greatly, I think it was £15 or £16 in 2018 it is now £18, seems a pretty small increase to me compared to most HR's over that period.

 

But it now has to find somewhere to store them, presumably pay a hire fee for them and probably pay for any maintenance. Why do that if you've already got the 117 and 121 that can cover your services?

 

I will be in a position to observe how many passengers are on that service tomorrow when it arrives at Corfe Castle. AFAIK It's formed of Pullman car 14 one of the Maunsell coaches and BSO 9015 at least thats what yesterdays
Driver experience was formed of , whilst the 5 car set was split apart, and mega shunting of stock to form the 6 car set took place at Swanage to include the other Maunsell coach.

 

Hypothetically,

Does the relationship with SLL/Swanage/Mid Hants/Spa now make even more sense with a pool of motive power that can be provided wherever the need is?

It would appear that Swanage will have ample locos available in the next 12-24(ish) months, with SLL hopefully turning out 34053 and 80104 both in the medium term.

As acknowledged elsewhere on the forum the MHR is having a "lean" spell with home based locos- so can SLL service that and any additional need from the Spa Valley?

I do wonder if this sort of model will become more prevalent in years to come, with fleet and workshop facilities potentially being remote to railways and more locomotives being looked after within the larger groups- we have already seen this trend on the mainline.....

Chris

 

£1100 per day. 3t of coal per day per loco.

 

That's an NYMR figure, of course - I would not expect the SR to be using equivalent amounts, but its the steam/diesel fuel cost ratio that is both interesting and compelling to the accountant -v but as we all know, accountants know the price of everything and the value of nothing so we must be careful not to give them too much encouragement!

 

What happens over SLL, loaning some of its engines to other lines, At least its being done with the full agreement of the Swanage Railway, The SLL;s business plan involves having several working engines earning income and that, along with members donations, and subscriptions, keeps the work flowing, A partnership with the MHR, benefits both organisations, the MHR has something Herston does not, and that's a boiler shop with trained boiler smiths, win win, MHR gets some SLL motive power, and Sll contracts some of its boiler work to Ropley, off setting hire costs, SLL get their boilers overhauled somewhere they know has the best standards, first will be Fred, but i couldn't discount the one after that, turning up as Freds is done, its steady income, for MHR,

 

It's interesting though that we are about to embark on the overhaul of a steam loco (LSWR B4 "Normandy") that, due to its low speed, will primarily just be used for shunting. The rationale being that without a regular steam shunting loco available, we are losing a very a useful skill in enginemanship!

Sometimes effects of changing service patterns take a long period to become apparent. As an example, an impact of running fewer steam diagrams is that you reduce the opportunity to train new crews; the effects of which may not be felt until it is too late to rectify them. While clearly any railway has to survive financially, it is important to realise the tightly integrated nature of operating. railway, and focusing only on the visible costs of delivering a service finance can have unwanted side effects elsewhere.

Tom

 

People need to be reminded (Once again) that not everywhere has lost business since lockdown. My usual mantra that Railway X. Y or Z are too long cannot be the case at Swanage as Norden to Swanage is a modest enough distance. Is the attention being devoted to the Wareham project detrimental to the health of the core business i.e. a visitor attraction?

























































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































































It's worth remembering (yet again) that not everywhere has had an utterly desperate time since lockdown. At

 

I can see why people at Swanage want a main line connection but I have always maintained it is something of a luxury. I've never seen Wareham as a particularly attractive destination, and the idea of hosts of potential passengers for the SR arriving there on mainline services as just the wet dreams of public transport fanaticists. It has often been said that the most successful lines run from one destination to another, and it seemed for a long time as though running from the Norden P & R to Swanage fulfilled that brief very successfully. Apart from it's novelty value I don't really running beyond Norden as adding significant extra value to the proposition.

It's worth remembering (yet again) that not everywhere has had an utterly desperate time since lockdown.

 

Looking the webcams 6 coaches not needed as loadings very low today and extra coach removed at close of service. But well done to them for avoiding DL hauled trains. We will buy day tickets as well as our T3 tickets in coach A and will be there Tuesday. Our sixth visit this year. 34028’please

 

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The line beyond Norton will have to be maintained regardless of wither you run anything on it,or not, so, whats the break even cost per day when the DMU runs, how many passengers does it need to travel on it to, and from Wareham to pay for the costs, and are you attracting that number, that has to be the first question you ask, if the DMU is already working services from Swanage to Norton, then that should off set the daily running costs, it will be the additional costs worked out into passenger numbers, that will either proove the viability, or otherwise of continueing this service.