If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

Swithland Steam Gala 26th – 28th April 2013

Discussion in 'Galas and Events' started by Bifur01, Oct 29, 2012.

  1. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005
    Messages:
    8,840
    Likes Received:
    6,340
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alderan !
    Duplicate Thread closed as duplicated content in the Swithland Gala thread

    The very fact that we have video publically available that plays it out in all its horrible glory and I'm sure will unfortunately haunt all of those involved means that the incident is inevitbaly going to discussed
     
    paulhitch likes this.
  2. belle1

    belle1 Part of the furniture Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    Messages:
    3,408
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    Leigh, Lancs.
    Done as requested but I think I have cross posted with Martin!
     
  3. waterbucket

    waterbucket New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2006
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    39
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Train Conductor
    Location:
    Leicester
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Unfortunately it is quite often the older generation that think they know better than everyone else and therefore consider themselves more "qualified" to post uninformed drivel. Those involved with the railway will know and appreciate what a massive and professional effort was made in the aftermath of this unfortunate incident to get the loco re-railed and back at Loughborough by the early hours of Sunday morning to allow the gala to continue with an albeit reduced but more intensive than usual service on the final day of the event. It is quite clear that serious problems have occurred (hence the loco on the deck) and the resulting investigation will draw conclusions and demand the appropriate action to be taken. However sweeping statements made by those not present at the time and acting only on the viewing of youtube footage without full background knowledge of the events leading up to the incident will not help anyone!
     
    Sheff, Kje7812, Wenlock and 1 other person like this.
  4. Corbs

    Corbs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2008
    Messages:
    1,709
    Likes Received:
    722
    Did anyone get any photos of the re-railing in progress? Sorry if this is speaking out of turn, it just fascinates me.
     
  5. Talyllyn07

    Talyllyn07 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2007
    Messages:
    335
    Likes Received:
    20
    Location:
    Haarlem, Holland
    agreed the use of the steam crane i must admit fascinates me too if i'm honest! just a shame something like that has to happen to see it in use! :)
     
  6. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    What I mean by "stuffy" are sentences like "im getting fed up of typing this". The incident has happened, in front of a lot of people, one of whom had a video camera. Naturally people will discuss this and it being so public it will be difficult eventually not to say what the cause was. The value of the discussion here has been to establish that the video sequence is only part of the story.
    PH
     
  7. Talyllyn07

    Talyllyn07 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2007
    Messages:
    335
    Likes Received:
    20
    Location:
    Haarlem, Holland
    So your saying we needed this discussion to find out the video is only part of the story? Seriously?

    Well I consider myself quite lucky that I was able to fathom that out for myself then!... dear god!
     
  8. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2006
    Messages:
    15,973
    Likes Received:
    6,676
    Location:
    1012 / 60158
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Looking through the RAIB reporting guidelines in 'Schedule 1': http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2005/1992/schedule/1/made, I would have thought that it met several of the criteria, but at the end of the day, it's up to the RAIB to decide.
    It may also be reportable under RIDDOR: http://www.hse.gov.uk/riddor/what-must-i-report.htm
    If the RAIB do not decide to get involved, there is no obligation on the part of the GCR to divulge what happened, but in my opinion, it would be pretty poor not to share any lessons learned with the rest of the industry.
     
    Kje7812 and Robert Heath No.6 like this.
  9. NickPreston

    NickPreston Member

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2013
    Messages:
    215
    Likes Received:
    48
    Has the damage to the loco or tender been deterimned? I think I'm right in saying that it's supposed to be in Nottingham this weekend for the GCR(N) festival.
    Anyone know what is happening, or likely to there?
     
  10. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    "dear god!" we are getting stuffy again!

    P.H.
     
  11. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    10,887
    Likes Received:
    8,017
    Occupation:
    Gentleman of leisure, nowadays
    Location:
    Near Leeds
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Well, looking at schedule 1:
    1. An accident resulting in the death of a person or the serious injury of two or more persons. It didn't
    2. An accident on a level crossing involving rolling stock, resulting in the death of a person or serious injury to a person. It didn't
    3. A collision between rolling stock on a running line which causes damage or blocks a running line that was open to railway traffic at the time of the collision. It wasn't and didn't
    4. A derailment of rolling stock on a running line that was open to railway traffic at the time of the derailment, or which blocks a running line that was open to railway traffic at the time of the derailment. It wasn't on a running line nor was it blocking it
    5. A collision of rolling stock with an arrestor mechanism or buffer stop, other than in a siding, that causes damage to the rolling stock. It wasn't
    6. An accident involving the release or combustion of dangerous goods being carried on rolling stock that necessitates the evacuation of the area. It wasn't
    7. An accident or incident that is likely to result in suspension of a railway service for a period in excess of 6 hours. Services were running shortly after
    8. An accident that causes extensive damage to rolling stock, the infrastructure or the environment. It wasn't. Extensivedamage is defined as over £2m euros.
    9. An accident or incident which under slightly different conditions might have led to a death, serious injury or extensive damage to rolling stock, the infrastructure or the environment. Subjective, but I'd say it wasn't.

    Certainly not reportable under Sched 1.
     
  12. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2006
    Messages:
    15,973
    Likes Received:
    6,676
    Location:
    1012 / 60158
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Re point 4, is it not a passing loop? Point 9 could well apply. I would certainly have reported the incident to RAIB, whether they chose to investigate is up to them.
     
  13. Talyllyn07

    Talyllyn07 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2007
    Messages:
    335
    Likes Received:
    20
    Location:
    Haarlem, Holland
    You could even say the same regarding schedule 2. a open running line is not a siding.
     
  14. Talyllyn07

    Talyllyn07 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2007
    Messages:
    335
    Likes Received:
    20
    Location:
    Haarlem, Holland
    Why do some of you seem to be baying for blood about this? The less RAIB have to visit the heritage sector the better in my view! And I have it on good authority that RAIB are not interested. Time to drop it now I feel, however I might just go and talk to that wall over there.....
     
  15. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2006
    Messages:
    15,973
    Likes Received:
    6,676
    Location:
    1012 / 60158
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I hear no baying for blood, just a discussion of what is applicable.
     
  16. Talyllyn07

    Talyllyn07 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2007
    Messages:
    335
    Likes Received:
    20
    Location:
    Haarlem, Holland
    Interesting point however I think you could only put a goods train in there to cross a passenger train, as I would be very surprised if your allowed to signal a passenger train over a set of trap points... therefore covered. Also their passenger train loop is the station isn't it?
     
  17. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2006
    Messages:
    15,973
    Likes Received:
    6,676
    Location:
    1012 / 60158
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    As I said before, I personally would have picked up the phone to the RAIB and reported the incident, and would be very surprised if the GCR did not.
     
  18. Talyllyn07

    Talyllyn07 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2007
    Messages:
    335
    Likes Received:
    20
    Location:
    Haarlem, Holland
    So now that some of us have taken it upon themselves to judge what happened during and before the event and that's being discussed I hope the conversation isn't trying to be swung in the direction of what the railway did in the aftermath...
     
  19. Neil_Scott

    Neil_Scott Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2008
    Messages:
    3,151
    Likes Received:
    261
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Operations Manager for NR
    Location:
    Worcester
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    As long as it had a FPL there shouldn't be any issue.
     
  20. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    22,819
    Likes Received:
    44,430
    Location:
    LBSC 215
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    As far as I can see (and I wouldn't by any means claim major expertise), the RAIB are primarily interested in accidents and incidents where there is (1) actual, or significant potential, risk to life or property and (2) where the circumstances are such that potentially there may be safety lessons and / or changes to recommended procedures, equipment etc for the whole industry.

    Taking a really dispassionate view of this incident:

    1) Train moved past signal set at danger.
    2) Trap points did their job and harmlessly deflected the train away from the running line that the trap point was protecting.
    3) Er... that's it.

    Now, I am sure the GCR will want to investigate the circumstances, and in particular why the initial move was made - was it authorised, who authorised it, what checks were done to ensure safety beforehand etc. But, without wishing to sound complacent about safety, the circumstances in which a move past a signal at danger can take place are covered in the rule books, and it is difficult to imagine that this incident has thrown up an issue of such fundamental importance as to lead to recommendations of wholesale changes, beyond "always be vigilant".

    Tom
     
    Kje7812 likes this.

Share This Page