Talyllyn Finances

The full document accessed from the link explains how the data was obtained and like all such requests from tourist boards and other researchers is only as good as the responses received and is generally not audited. It does, however, provide indications and trends which taken collectively give an idea of how visitors spend their time and money. https://www.visitbritain.org/annual-survey-visits-visitor-attractions provides various spreadsheet format data which can be sorted to show types of attraction, locality, visitor numbers, price bands and changes from year to year. Still not the sort of hard data a scientist may want but interesting in terms of how the popularity of attraction types and visitor numbers to areas change. Only by considering how heritage railways fit within the wider context of consumer spending are we likely to ensure income is sustained and grown and in the absence of better data and analysis I simply quoted what was easily found to stimulate debate. Others may be able to comment on the extent to which such as HRA provides help to members concerning the relative profitability of activities (cafes, other attractions etc.).

 

Like you I would not want to expend scarce resource on WIBN connections, however, where they already exist and a few minutes tweak to a timetable could improve them I would have thought it worthwhile. I have certainly spent money elsewhere in Wales having realised the poor connection where a better connection would have changed my spending to the TR's benefit. I wonder how many others have done likewise?

 

As you say, accessibility is good, added to which it is in one of the tourist "hot spots", next door to the National Slate Museum (which has even more visitors), and other attractions on site, with a huge car park. The run is shorter, the cost is much less (although you can't get a "rover" style ticket) and is a much better ride for those with toddlers. Many more people take holidays in that part of Wales compared with the Tywyn area so a bigger potential audience. Its immediate competition in the area is the WHR and Ffestiniog, and for the family deciding to go "on a train ride" with young children in tow Llanberis would win hands down in my opinion.

Not surprising really that the visitor numbers are higher - in fact I'm a little surprised that they're not higher still!

Steve B

 

I think that dropping Thomas events is a topic for a different thread. As far as I am aware (and I am waiting to be corrected) as a result of the connection with Rev. Awdry and having events before Britt Allcroft brought the TV rights, the Talyllyn is one railway that can have events that are not official Day Out With Thomas events. Which means they don't have the substantial demands from the licensees. Although they can only use locos from the railway series books that are based on their locos and the faces have to be different. Which is why Duncan & Peter Sam have had hats in the past and the faces are flesh coloured, not grey.

Similarly they Nene Valley can run their Thomas but it has to have a wooden 2D face and they have to call it 'Thomas', but can't use the words 'The Tank Engine'.

 

There has been one such other thread which is why I did not say more. Obviously the overheads for the T.R. will be less but whether the steam is going out of Thomas (sorry) is something everybody, including the T.R.. will need to keep under review and take early action if necessary.

PH

 

The mainline connection is there (albeit a little walk away) and it would seem wise to make it as usable as possible. The Cambrian Coast line does serve a useful purpose transport wise because of the round about route the roads have to take around the estuaries, and I know people (not enthusiasts) who have visited the Tal-y-Llyn by train from further up the coast because it was more convenient than by car. It was all part of the day out - Barmouth Bridge and all. A difficulty in setting the timetable according to the whims of Arriva Trains Wales and even advertising connections is what do you do when the mainline trains are running late (not unknown...) - do you wait on the off chance that you might gain an extra couple of passengers, or do you leave and lose them?

This has been an interesting thread, and it has been fascinating seeing the suggestions being made. The only bits that I have thought "no, no no and no" to have been the suggestions of downgrading the extension to the status of an "add on", or closing it. I don't understand the rationale for having the refreshment stop at Aber. Have a Cafe there by all means - so long as it pays it's way - as some folk start their journey there. Having a comparatively lengthy enforced stop in one of the less attractive stations where there is little to do if you don't want a cuppa or need a wee is just annoying. The stations where I would choose to stay a while would be Nant Gwernol and Dolgoch. Having the more frequent train service that the TR runs makes getting off and catching a later train more viable - one of the reasons why I wouldn't wish to use the WHR to go walking on the mountains - not many trains and if you miss the last one it's a long walk back!

Steve B

 

We are of very similar points of view I think. I had mused that closure or downgrading of the extension would be an alternative to closure of the cafe for those who must have a cafe there. However I did dismiss that idea. One thing I am particularly glad about is the focus on the refreshment stop which has annoyed me for decades. It must have cost the railway thousands over the years in having an additional set of carriages in service and an extra locomotive in steam during peak periods to serve an unprofitable facility.

Paul H

 

Thanks. That link in your post is very interesting.

 

I don't know about little to do at Aber...there's woodland walks for the energetic or a reasonable playground for the kids...free car park...nice café...sit and watch the world go by.... I think it's a great spot (oh and little trains pottering about...)

 

Maybe I was a little harsh about Aber - but if I was going to spend a while watching the world go by, or walking, I'd do it at Dolgoch or Nant Gwernol.

My favourite narrow gauge place to chill out, watch the trains go by and enjoy the views is at Dduallt on the Ffestiniog (another place where you don't want to miss the last train) - but that doesn't help the Tal-y-Llyn!

Steve B

 

Ah the happy days of driving over the Army Bridge - the green lobby just went for a cycle bridge by way of replacement after a 30 year interregnum.

 

Indeed - in the 1960's and 70's, the loads of caravans around Towyn were let out on a weekly basis and pretty much all those staying in said caravans took a ride on the train during their weeks hols (because apart from sitting on the beach and/or going to the pub, there wasn't much else to do). Then they discovered that they could fly to Spain and have a cheaper holiday in a hotel with meals included and without Towyn's guaranteed rain. The rest as they say is history.

 

IIRC the survey emailed attractions, who either chose to reply or not. AFAIK the Ffest & WHR figures are healthy.

 

A solution that was bad for business with no demonstrable environmental benefit.

 

Agree entirely. My point is that the link from the characters to real trains is tenuous.

 

But if they regularly visit the same holiday location, then why wouldn't they visit the railway regularly? If not, they are soon going to run out of things to do.

 

because they aren't like you and me who can't get enough railways....it's a case of "been there, done that" for most people.

 

I'm not sure that holds. For some people at least, a degree of familiarity is a way to a low stress holiday. For example, if you have visited an attraction with children; the children enjoyed it and kept themselves occupied without moans; the food was good; the place was clean; you basically formed a favourable impression; then it is likely to be high on your list the following year relative to trying somewhere else that might be better, but could well be worse. Some people are just naturally conservative, and high amongst them would be people who have in any case chosen to return on holiday to an area they have previously visited rather than go somewhere new. Equally, for some (parents at least!) low stress and knowing what you can expect trumps a lot of things on how you might plan a holiday. Not everyone is a "been there, done that" gadfly always looking for something new or different.

Tom

 

If this is so (and I don't doubt you have a point) then the situation is worse than we supposed. I suppose the caravan sites etc are flooded with literature, if not perhaps this should be resumed. However in A.D.2016, electronic media is all important and IMHO the website is fussy almosr beyond belief. It needs to be greatly simplified and aimed foursquare at potential passengers.

PH

 

I don't know where the truth lies, only market research will reveal that...presumably the TR already do this.

The point made about the website is good, you can have whatever you want on there, but the main page should be hard-hittingly aimed at getting bums onseats.