Talyllyn Finances

Let Abergynolwyn be a proper passing place, without an enforced stop in the up direction. Let passengers break the journey here if they wish (which they can do). The enforced stop is a business model that is 45 years out of date. The train crews dont like it either, and if you are posted to Abergynolwyn as station staff it is not the best place to spend a day IMHO.

Cheers,
Julian

 

Indeed!

PH

 

on most days there is nothing to cross.

 

One asks if that forced layover was done away with and an extra trains run, would people alight and get another train if they were more frequent. Trains sat in a station for 45mins are making no income (yes I know your encouraging them into the tea room but stick with it), I know one railway (1 engine in steam) who went from 5 trains a day to 6 by doing away with the long layovers, it's costs went up slightly but it's passenger increases covering that easily but a boost in income came with it too. There is nothing to be gained in potential customers turning up to be told they have just missed a train and the next one is not for some time - net result they just walk away. Now that's not to say you just run more trains which run nearly empty, it's a bit of a juggling act to get the balance right, but is it worth someone sitting down and doing the sums?

 

Agreed but it may be possible to run very nearly the same amount of trains with one less carriage set and locomotive during the peak season without that pesky refreshment stop. After all the refreshment facilities are there to serve the railway not the other way round.

PH

 

I suspect the 'walk-up -and- ride' market has decreased over the years as internet access means timetable info is much more readily available. In holiday & tourist locations such as Whitby, Paignton, Swanage, Llangollen etc there will always be a good number turning up on-spec for a train ride, but I suspect that people do their homework now before heading off to most places expecting there to be a train turn up. I suspect most Talyllyn passengers do some checking beforehand, even with Tywyn being a holiday town ,

Jon

 

I wonderif the café would do nearly as much business if you eliminated the 45 minute stop, ran more trains, and gave people the choice of a ride to Nant Gwernol or a stop at the café. After all most passengers aren't buffer stop kissers.

 

Speaking as a parent of small children: on the one hand two 45-minute runs separated by a break is indeed better than a 70-minute run, a break, then a 45-minute run. On the other hand, though, the time it takes to run from Abergynolwyn to Nant Gwernol, run round and come back is definitely not enough time to have a lunch break; it would be just enough for a quick snack if we were lucky.

 

Maybe the solution is to take a leaf from the Ffestiniog's book, and introduce a buffet car? Admittedly it is a bit difficult with the TR stock not having corridors, but you could send the buffet car attendants down the train at the intermediate stops offering a tray of light refreshments at the window, which the FfR does for passengers in non-corridor stock.

 

Could be done at the Dolgoch water stop.

PH

 

The Talyllyn survived (just!) to be preserved because it was in an obscure and forgotten corner of Merionethshire, a county with almost no population or work. That is why it was subsidised (sound familiar) for decades by Sir Haydn. If it had to be subsidised pre-WW2 to run a barebones service of about one train a day (and at that managing only just to cling to life with engines and track in deplorable and dangerous condition), how on earth do you expect it to be profitable now, purely on the basis of running trains? Yes, fares have increased markedly, but so have costs.
There were a few years with a large captive market when the local tourist boom was happening. This seems to be largely over.
Meanwhile its location makes relying on volunteers only difficult (but remember who thought of using volunteers in the first place!)
Now we have people complaining that Abergynolwyn is obscure - yes, that's why the railway is still there for us to enjoy!

 

We found that at Fairbourne years ago; in fact we were more drastic and closed a couple of days a week, but passenger numbers stayed more or less the same, suggesting that people do check in advance. The two extra non-running days each week gave our limited full time staff valuable time to keep up with maintenance and improvements.

 

I did not understand andrewshimmin's post above. Apologies, andrew.

Abergynolwyn is 'obscure'? The village is actually rather nice and used to have a very nice pub. The Hotel at Talyllyn Lake is rather more stunning as is the setting.

As for the enforced station stop at Abergynolwyn on the up journey it reminds me of stories of the enforced stop at Swindon for the refreshment rooms in days long since passed of the GWR.

The TR is a relatively short line, unlike the Ffestiniog.

Tywyn has very little to offer the modern day tourist. The beach is a long trek from from the town, and with the variably weather on the mid wales coast in summer good beach days are few unless lucky with the weather. The town itself has no attraction or merit what so ever.

Due to the geography Tywyn is not easy to get to.

It is in a backwater that few these days spend a week on holiday.

It was ever thus.

Cheers,
Julian

 

Plus travelling to Tywyn involves 70 miles of very poor roads.

 

It has a nice little railway though!

 

A quick scan of Google earth shows significant areas of caravan and camping sites around Tywyn so presumably there is a significant number of overnight visitors in the area. Maybe the users of such sites are on tight budgets incompatible with current fare levels or are alternatively family owners of caravans used as second homes who will probably have travelled on the railway in the past. Either of these hypotheses implies there may be untapped potential for local marketing initiatives to attract these visitors to take a ride. E.g's might be discount vouchers issued via the site owners/booking agents or vouchers offering discounts after the first full price ride. Theme parks and other tourist attractions often operate any number of promotions to attract repeat visits particularly during low season weeks.

 

however the road access to Abergwynolwyn is really quite good, and pretty spectacular

 

From where?

 

Presumably from somewhere that starts after about 65 miles of very poor roads?

I've visited the Tal-y-llyn on a few occasions, always driving. It's a lovely railway, but however you dress it up, it's a bit of an expedition by car to get there from any reasonably large centre of population. Moreover, I suspect that for many people coming from the general West Midlands-y sort of area, if all you are after is a steam narrow gauge fix, you'll pretty well drive past the Welshpool and Llanfair, at which point you have still got 90 minutes and 50 miles to get to Twywn.

It's hardly the fault of the Tal-y-llyn about their location, but even so, the location must be such as to act as a major disincentive to make a day trip visit for many people unless you are specifically interested in going to that railway, rather than just a railway.

Tom

 

the roads are pretty reasonable in North Wales I think, given there is no need for Motorways and Major dual carriageways. The coastal route to Towyn I wouldn't be keen on but if you arrive from the east as most do no doubt, then arriving at Abergwnolwyn is a good alternative. Off the A487 road

90 minutes for 50 miles means you are averaging 37.5 mph, surely you'd do better than that.