Talyllyn Finances

Just go back towards Tywyn a bit.

PH

 

You cannot see Cader Idris from the train!

Cheers,
Julian

 

Anybody any idea of passenger numbers for the V of R ? Is Aberystwyth a draw for visitors or have the bucket and spade brigade long-departed?

 

I agree. I think that the lower section of the line, where the mountains open out and the sea becomes just visible in the distance, is one of the highlights of the journey.

Anyway the appeal of the TR is not just scenic: it has a wonderful character and atmosphere. The train proceeds at an unhurried pace, and there are very few signs of modernity outside the window. In fact, if you can get a seat in one of the original coaches, the travel experience has hardly changed since 1865...and that, of course, is the whole point.

I think there are very few heritage railways in Britain, on any gauge, which have kept their "sleepy branch line" atmosphere as well as the TR. Admittedly, though, that may be precisely because the railway is usually not overwhelmed with visitors - and therein lies the problem!

Also, I think it is more difficult to "sell" the TR to non-railway enthusiasts. As much as I love the TR, it is hard to deny that the more dramatic scenery of the Welsh Highland or VoR has a more obvious appeal for "normal" people.

 

Again I would say that, to me, there are large stretches of the W.H.R., principally between Waenfawr and Dinas, that are rather "Ho-Hum".

Returning to our muttons, I did wonder whether the T.R. might consider terminating trains at Abergynolwyn with a Parry People Mover or such to take such people up to Nant Gwernol as wished to go. The refreshment stop could then be accommodated happily within the runround time. However (a) there is the cost of acquiring the P.P.M. and (b) the fact IMHO that the extension scenery is the best on the line. There is no way the T.R. can rescue the fortunes of the area as a holiday attraction single handed and I fear they will just have to find a way of handling the traffic which comes as economically as possible.

PH

 

would not a diesel loco and one coach be a better alternative to a PPM with this option?

 

I agree with you, but I'm not so sure that that's what Paul was meaning!

Steve B

 

I have a vague memory from my childhood holidays that the TR used to do some sort of joint promotion with King Arthur's labyrinth and the Centre for Alternative Technology. I don't know whether they still do, but I guess there is a value to trying show people that there is a variety of things to do in the area. Perhaps the Corris Railway could buy into it, too?

 

So, the helpful suggestions on NP for improving the fortunes of the world's first preserved steam railway, a railway which runs all its original stock (plus some additions with their own history) in scenery which varies from pleasantly pastoral to glorious, are:
1. Move it nearer Birmingham
2. Dieselise
3. Chop off the flat bit at the end where most passengers join the train.
4. Run fewer trains, although this wouldn't do much to reduce maintenance costs
5. Don't stop to let people use the loos and buy a coffee.
6. Charge less for drinks and snacks.
Have I missed any?
Business genius on here. You should apply for the Apprentice, Donald Trump would really love those ideas... - oh, wait!

 

You missed:

7. Move Cader Idris to a position where it can be seen from the train.

Probably quite a big move if you are moving the whole railway towards Birmingham ...

Tom

 

Please don't get huffy! If "the world's first preserved railway" is to remain in a healthy state it either has to increase business (difficult) or reduce costs (just as difficult). Ideally both. Every voluntary supported line has the benefit of bequests but old friends surely deserve better of their generosity than for it to be used to subsidise the cafe.

Of course suggestions from outside are bound to miss the point to some extent or even be crass. However, if the response to well meaning suggestions as to how to cope with what must be forty years of steady decline is an unremitting No, No, No. and No then things don't look good.

Best wishes,

Paul H

 

To be slightly Churchillian, the café can be fixed. What is the IoW's doing to remedy the loss before donations and subs?

 

I would suggest to anyone wishing to make a legacy in favour of any charity, not just a 'preserved' railway one, should be specific in what form of project their legacy may be used for. That should eliminate incorrect application of the money such as being used to subside loss making sectors.
I believe this method of subsidy, most likely not intended by the deceased Member, has been used on certain well known 'heritage' railways in the past.

 

Without wishing to be specifically commenting on the IoWSR, do they actually consider there is a need to?

I am with @paulhitch - legacies should not be subsiding actually operating costs. Membership subs perhaps, and of course donations only can be if that is what the Appeal was for!

Steven

 

Both the gift shop and the catering operations are comfortably profitable and make a substantial contribution to the revenue costs of running the railway as IMHO they should. I was told by "a good source" recently that the catering side is heading towards an especially good result for 2016 but this was said in confidence which I have to honour. It is no secret that fares income is up by 14%.

PH

 

Ah, but did you put the fares up by 15%?!?

Seriously, what sort of Fares increase was there from 2015 to 2016 and how much is extra numbers?

What are IoWSR, Talyllyn or anyone planning as a Fares increase for 2017?

Steven

 

I think your solicitor may advise against it!

I believe a heritage charity a couple of years back declined a 6 figure legacy for a specific purpose because they felt that to undertake the project specified would be against the charity's aims. Hence, a good lawyer would probably advise some form of Letter of Wishes but not a binding condition to avoid an Estate with funds that the intended recipient felt they could not accept.

In terms of 'subsidy', just because that is how it may appear from the accounts presentation doesn't mean that is how the Trustees view matters - they may have to assist cash flow during the closed season by 'loaning' Designated Bequests but keep a very steady eye on the amount of such funds and have development plans for them. Of course, in order to ever spend them, Cash Flow must be planned to allow this. There are plenty of major projects such as infrastructure renewals and major locomotive overhauls which I am sure those leaving money to their favourite heritage line would be happy to support, and I actually suspect many would be willing to see day to day costs covered if it meant the line survivies in an emergency, but would most definitely NOT expect the Trustees to undertake their financial planning on the basis that legacies would pay the everyday bills that operations don't!

Steven

 

This can cause problems if the donor specifies projects not high on the list or where there is a shortfall in funding. The money may sit in the account for many years, untouched.

 

The figures until the end of June show an increase in journeys of 13.2% over the corresponding period in 2015 (itself a record year) The figures for the third quarter will come out any moment.

Fares did go up but I cannot recall the percentage. A high number of visitors come by motor coach and I have no idea of the rates. Many people use Tesco vouchers as well.

I have no idea if either line proposes a fare increase next year. One passenger will say "a bargain" and another "a rip-off."

Paul H

 

You also missed:
8. Don't run the main train all the way to one of the most attractive parts of the line. Instead let people get off and get on another (much smaller train - even tram-like creation) - if they're not too busy having a wee or getting a coffee, and if there is enough space for them

Yours with tongue firmly in cheek

Steve B