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Tangmere

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Live Steam, Sep 4, 2011.

  1. Swan Age

    Swan Age Member

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    Individual locomotives may have experienced poor steaming. Apparently 34105"Swanage" was supposed to be a poor steamer at some stage in its BR career, later on it apparently steamed well. But was this more to do with the locomotive not being set up properly, blastpipe alignment, poor valve setting, worn valve gear etc, rather than anything else?

    Don't ever remember anyone at the MHR complaining of poor steaming during it preservation career, but like 34081 it was a little worn at the front end come the end of its last ticket.
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  2. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    If I'm reading this correctly, the slow and poor steaming sobriquet was being applied to The Big Tent and not to Bulleids, flat topped or otherwise.

    (TGM = The Great Marquess)
     
  3. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Every class had a poor steamer or two in its ranks as you point out but it was the inference in 242's post that the class as a whole were sluggish and poor steamers that puzzled me.
     
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  4. Bulleid Pacific

    Bulleid Pacific Part of the furniture

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    Merely speculating, but if it was the big-end that went as mentioned in the RTC letter quoted in 'what's going on' section, then it might say something about the circlip method of fixing the connecting rod to the crank. I've had a quick run through photos of all unrebuilts that have run in preservation as well as 34051, and it seems only 34067 and 34105 have retained this arrangement. The rest have LMS-style four-stud fittings, as does 34073.
     
  5. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    I see. I thought TGM were the initials of some eminent steam expert.
     
  6. martin butler

    martin butler Part of the furniture

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    Swanage was not as free steaming as 34016, but in no way was she a bad steamer, maintaining unrebuilts, most of the problems are lack of accesability , removing hundreds of bolts or screws to remove parts of the casing before you can even get to the bit you need to see, the valve gear can be a pain chain driven valve gear in a very enclosed area etc, i wonder if now Tangmere will have the big end locking arrangement changed to that of the rebuilds and most of the other unrebuilds in preservation,
     
  7. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    I still cannot come to terms with 'unrebuilt' :/
     
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  8. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Yes it does smack of a design that was always intended to become something else at a later date which, of course, was not the intention as far as OVSB was concerened when he designed them. So it seems from #66 that possibly the difficulty of access and hidden components can present a problem with maintenance. So with the part in question, you would actually have to remove something to check all was well beneath. It says a lot for the easy visibility of everything moving as far as that is possible. It does explain later "Standard" type designs a bit.
     
  9. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Which part are we on about?
     
  10. Grashopper

    Grashopper Member

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    While hidden components are a nightmare for fitters, when you consider the ease of oiling up an original Bulleid design with that of a Jarvis rebuild, I know which ones the drivers prefer! That was part of the reasoning behind the overall design- to make the locomotive easier to prepare and dispose for crews. In most cases (with the exception of them not fitting under some coaling towers and there being no platforms being available to fill the sanders) Bulleid succeeded in this goal. While there were issues with the steam powered firebox door, this also (in theory) made the job easier for the crew.
     
  11. std tank

    std tank Part of the furniture

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    That would require six new crankpins to be made and fitted.
     
  12. Jimc

    Jimc Part of the furniture

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    I suspect its more to do with the word than the design... If you tell me something has been unrebuilt then I assume that its something in which a rebuilding process was reversed - for instance if you took the Bluebell's Dukedog and put a Standard 2 boiler on her and turned back into 3427 that would be unrebuilt. Never rebuilt, like Tangmere, is something different in my eyes!
    Or a different set of wheels and axles. But its surely difficult to justify speculation that there's a significant problem with that design. After all had there been a significant problem with such a safety critical component Southern Region would surely have put a wholesale replacement programme in place.
     
  13. std tank

    std tank Part of the furniture

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    I quite agree.
     
  14. Bulleid Pacific

    Bulleid Pacific Part of the furniture

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    No, that would be "un-rebuilt", which is completely different again. "Unrebuilt" (note no hyphen) should be interpreted as something whereby a rebuilding process was started but not completed, which used in the context of Bulleids, implies that the process of rebuilding all 110 locomotives was not completed. That is before we go down the road of "modified" and "un-modified". Its all semantics and subjectivity, and I'll leave sociologists to work that one out when they've finished with defining the term "consumer society".
     
  15. Rumpole

    Rumpole Part of the furniture

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    I still prefer the terms 'original' and 'de-tuned'...
     
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  16. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Well said that man. :)
     
  17. Enterprise

    Enterprise Part of the furniture

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    I think that should be "disrebuilt".
     
  18. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    So having asked the original question back at #53 (and thanks for the comments from those who know more than me) it seems that Tangmere is not a great deal more complicated to maintain and work on than any other locomotive. The fact that she sadly seems to be more incident prone than one might like is therefore not easy to explain. Just adding up the number of times things have happened certainly suggests that her motion and valve gear generally demand regular expert attention.
     
  19. Eightpot

    Eightpot Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Which seems to say that drivers and firemen's views are the only ones to be considered. If you are the poor sod who has to maintain it, would you still prefer a non-rebuild?
     
  20. Bulleid Pacific

    Bulleid Pacific Part of the furniture

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    As much as it might be hard to accept, its not a question of preference; maintenance was what they were paid to do at the time, regardless of the complexity of the locomotive. It appears that the low-maintenance brief was mainly intended to reduce time-consuming on-the-road tasks like oiling-up.
     

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