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The Atlantic Coast Express 5th-8th September 2014

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by steamvideosnet, Jun 2, 2013.

  1. banana patch

    banana patch Member

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    I agree steam dreams have been having a tough time and mostly through no fault of their own which is why I really do hope they can deliver on the ace
     
  2. Paul42

    Paul42 Part of the furniture

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    In the past they have been more realistic and thorough.The loss of GB and change TOC cannot have helped. Next years multi day the Lakes Explorer seems more realistic and probably a bit conservative compared to previous 2-4 day trips.

    I always access whether any long day or multiday trip is achievable and/or if it will be too long a day whether it be SD, RTC or VT.

    I have just found timings for Past Time trip to Barnstable in 2006 on a Thursday evening see http://www.uksteam.info/tours/t06/t0601a.htm
     
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  3. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Actually, this trip was advertised to the public ahead of anything else that appeared in the RTC brochure or VT's for that matter. However, I accept that this doesn't necessarily mean that the TOC had that level of detail. It's just so ironic that WCR seems (according to information from SD) now to be stretched for steam crews in the same way that DBS was - the factor that prompted the move of SD away from them. I assume that notwithstanding all the logistical issues around the abortive branch line Sunday trip, the crew shortage wouldn't have been mentioned if it was not also a real factor...and the planned Royal Duchy on that Sunday is a potential conflict, is it not?
     
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  4. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    And that just proves the point that to do Barnstaple, you would need to have accommodated folk in Exeter on the night of Day 1 with an optional evening trip to Barnstaple and back for those interested while everyone else enjoyed a pleasant evening out. It seems all this information was already 'out there' for those who needed it in their planning............

    Whilst I wouldn't want to imply anything at all in comparing the two, it does seem to me that the RTC tries to offer interesting and affordable UK day trips with steam plus the odd tours that also have an enthusiast appeal. SD now seems to be offering interesting travel packages that involve steam in some shape or form, a few of which might have enthusiast appeal. These therefore might be slightly different markets and that, of course, is what sensible businesses do in finding their niche. The problem with this Forum is that we are viewing these companies through a particular lens, quite rightly so, and that does mean that sometimes what we talk about may not match completely the original intent of the trip under discussion.

    That said, the ACE was there to appeal to an enthusiast market so I am sure Marcus R is equally unhappy about the way things are turning out.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2014
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  5. jonathonag

    jonathonag Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the Royal Duchy can be viewed as a potential conflict. But note that 'One Off' tours receive advertising to the public far further in advance than the Repeat Regulars ( Jacobite/Royal Duchy/Shakespeare's etc... ), as you have mentioned, does not mean that RYTC and VT didn't submit their plans for their respective tours first - they just have less reason to advertise so far in advance, because a lot of it is based around casual daytrippers and families as opposed to crank enthusiasts. Families don't book a steam railtour 12 months in advance, and it's only very recently we're seeing RYTC advertise their railtours publicly far further in advance than a simple 5/6 months.

    As for crews, the reason they changed to WCRC wasn't a lack of steam crews with DBS, but the companie's own unwillingness to crew them and pay 'overtime'. Looking at Steam Dream's plans, you have a crew for Tangmere, Braunton and Britannia. Already that's 3 drivers at least. (I won't include firemen as for the latter two locomotives I am unsure wether it is a solely WCRC fireman provided, or one from a pool of Hosking's group). The Royal Duchy exceeds 12 hours, so should require 2 drivers of its own for the one engine rostered, while I believe the Shakespeare only requires a single driver. But that already pushes your total drivers required in the South to 6.
    Next on the list are guards. I'd expect the ACE and associated movements to exceed 12 hours, requiring two guards as per Royal Duchy. Shakespeare, again, 1? That's 5 guards. Just how many staff do you expect to be based down in this area of the country which sign the respective routes?

    As I said before, if Steam Dreams were the last across the line then they must work with the hand they have been dealt. Why any of the competition that weekend should be expected to give up their own charters in the sake of SD managing to run a tour which semi resembles the original advertised trip is beyond me...
     
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  6. Steamage

    Steamage Part of the furniture

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    Yes and no. On the Sunday, the potential conflict with the Shakespeare Express and Royal Duchy was the one-engine branch-lines tour. The crews involved on Friday should have a clear rest day (Saturday) in between, unless they are also rostered for different (non-steam) tours, or other movements, that day. I suppose there is also an ECS move from Par to Penzance on Sunday night or Monday morning. It seems to me that getting the 8F down from Carnforth, re-marshalling the tour train before and after, and pathing a steam special over the branches, was more than could be arranged. Doing it all for £25-per-head add-on fare plus and an unknown number of other passengers at a higher fare, was probably also too big a "challenge".

    If we were starting from scratch today, with a tour promising 3 steam locos from London to Penzance on a Friday and back on a Monday, various optional attractions on Saturday and Sunday, with food and accommodation included, the ticket price would still look quite attractive. The reason we are feeling either short-changed or glad we didn't give in to temptation, is the other goodies that are no longer part of the package.
     
  7. jonathonag

    jonathonag Well-Known Member

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    Ah, only just looked at UK Steam more closely. I would imaging the 8F would require potentially two crews however, or possibly it could have all been covered in under 12 hours only require one steam and one diesel crew? Then we lead to the point about the ECS for the Monday ACE. It would either have to move on the Sunday, requiring extra crews, or an early AM Monday movement which if utilising the same crew as used on 8F, would curtail any 8F acitivities at 3pm on the Sunday.

    Again, it was perhaps just too an optimistic tour for Steam Dreams to promote during a time of high charter acitivity. If they had considered it instead of their Explorer trip for late May 2015, or even October of this year, they may have managed to acheive their goal?
     
  8. Paul42

    Paul42 Part of the furniture

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    and I only found it by accident. A quick search on each year of tours on UK Steam would have found it.Thanks to David Randles, Uk Steam.info for such a useful record on what has happended before.
     
  9. gricerdon

    gricerdon Guest

    If GB was still there we could reasonably hope for
    If GB was still there we could reasonably hope for an xx55 Waterloo departure with the xx50 Salisbury held at Worting. Wasn't this his golden path for an 80-83 minute Salisbury non stop?

    Don
     
  10. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Despite the disappointment about the branch line tour, I am hoping that this year's ACE will still be an improvement on the 2011 one, when two of the three locos originally rostered were unavailable on the day and the third one, 34067, failed near Bridgwater and was taken off at Taunton, leaving us with 70000 and a diesel for the rest of the trip.
     
  11. Paul42

    Paul42 Part of the furniture

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    and it all started from " The Coronation " which was a GB idea, and Marcus got feedback from passengers on the trip that they would have liked a day in Edinburgh rather head back the following day. Even I have only done a day trip or preserved railway visit on the middle day of one of the SD Multiday trips I have been on.On the middle day of the last ACE I walked the Camel trail all the way to Padstow from Bodmin.
    I doubt Marcus could have foreseen how the busniess would evolve.
     
  12. steamvideosnet

    steamvideosnet Well-Known Member

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    UKSteam.info has been updated with a TBA now next to 34046, vice 70000 - can't say I'm surprised!

    James
     
  13. banana patch

    banana patch Member

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    How long before tangy becomes a TBA?
     
  14. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    The way things have gone so far with the ACE, the implied unavailability of Britannia becomes just another headache for SD and a source of irritation for those of us who have a fair amount of money invested in the trip. Options are limited when you need three steam locomotives.

    5029 is unavailable (TBEx) but anyway there is the query over whether it is gauged west of Par. So that's the end of options for the JH stable unless Bittern becomes a sub on the London departure - interesting and as it's not a MN, does it matter? Then Tangmere joins Braunton - safety in numbers with Tangmere would be reassuring. We know about Clan Line. I think 70013 is supposed to be up north and that's it really. There is, of course, the possible option of a rescue Black 5..........unless West Coast sends down Galatea - that was a joke! But seriously, this trip is really quite a worry now.
     
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2014
  15. Paul42

    Paul42 Part of the furniture

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    70013 is shown on the 5305LA website as doing the DCE on the 27/8 then the Cheshireman on the 20/9, so could be an option ? Might be better for the London to Exeter leg if available?
     
  16. Steamage

    Steamage Part of the furniture

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    Rumour has it, Tangmere's returning south next week, firebox repairs completed. If true, that's encouraging. She's booked for the Weymouth Seaside on Sun 17th and maybe a Dorset Coast before the ACE, so any remaining snags should be identified and fixed.
     
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  17. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Yes, there are a few running in turns for Tangmere before the ACE and that's helpful. As for the absence of enough locos for this trip, it's generally true that West Coast does try hard to find a solution if the tour operator has a problem identifying a substitute loco so I'm optimistic that something..anything...will be found that has a fire inside it. It was the case at one point that the 8F was supposed to be coming south for the branch lines so if all else fails that could help us west of Exeter. At least it would guarantee we'll get up the hills.
     
  18. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    Smoke signals have been observed at Carnforth on a day that is not normally associated with the usual light ups for planned steam workings.:)
     
  19. 5098

    5098 Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn't that be the 8F (or 45699??), preparing for its "beat the FBU strike" LE move to Carlisle ready for tomorrow's return Waverley? http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U50632/2014/08/09/advanced
     
  20. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    No this was yesterday and it seems it was Galatea in steam so yes maybe for Sunday, but Leander and 45231 also standing outside the shed. No sign of Tangy yet.
     

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