The Bath Christmas Market - 10/12

One thing I'd like to add, Tangmere is regularly going around with 10 plus coaches on so sometimes may need assistance, especially at this time of the year. Nothing against VT but 5043 seems to run with only 8/9, maybe on certain occassions 10 coaches and it's a stronger engine so to compare the 2 loco's is rather unfair in this matter.

Considering what is asked of Tangmere in hauling these heavier trains and taking into account it's power class, I think it does a decent job.

Some great photo's and video's too!

 

On the outward run, Tangmere departed from Bath Spa in fine style without the aid of the diesel.
Perhaps it was just one of those days and the loco needed assistance on the return journey. <BJ>

 

I don't think anyone is comparing 34067 to 5043, that would be like comparing chalk and cheese anyway as you say.

I think it's more the issue that 34067 needs some consistant trouble free runs to convince some that it won't come to grief as it's costs WCRC a lot of delay minutes and you can't really blame them for trying to minimise the risk.

For what it's worth i do agree with you that 12 coaches in poor railhead conditions is a big ask of a Light Pacific, but i guess that could be considered dodgy for any class 7 in such conditions.

 

Can I say one thing? There are two scenarios here, 1. Having diesels attached, not so much of a problem if it does not "assist" too much although it means extra weight to lug around.
2. More importantly, what it does. Ok if it helps on difficult sections only, BUT in this case if various reports are anything to go by, it seemed to be pushing all day even on easy sections like pulling out of Bath. Alt's1985 video on here proves that point. Surely there can't be anyone on here who is willing to pay £80-100 for a day out behind steam on the mainline & find themselves being pushed by a diesel all day. How far do you take "insurance".

 

I quoted Bath just as an example although it is part of Brunel's "billiard table". That is the point, no one has come up with any reasons as to why.

 

Nobody has to, this isn't a court room where the operators have to justify themselves to you. Chill out.

 

Not just to me, it's in the interest steam enthusiasts/ potential tour passengers etc.

 

With regards to Tangmere at Balcolmbe, she seemed to be working hard in the morning an the diesel wasn't a great deal. Remember it's downhill over the viaduct so neither would be working a great deal. The beat of the exhaust of a spam can might be mistaken for a diesel I suppose at a push but it was definitely the Bulleid doing the lions share if not all the work.

 

But if the driver of Tangmere (in this instance) & the driver in the diesel have an agreement between themselves then that is between them, I'm sure you know by your wealth of experience that they will be in contact either by walkie talkie or telephone. If this is the case then there is no reason for you or anyone else to know, other than the support crew of course but if it is an issue with the on board passengers, I'm sure the driver on either engine would be happy to tell them if asked.

At the end of the day you weren't on the trip so it doesn't effect you at all.

 

What affects me or doesn't affect me is none of your business. Don't talk to me like a teacher or parent to a child! Especially on a public forum. I am probably a lot older than you.

 

If people on the trip weren't happy that a diesel was on the back, they will either complain to the operator, or choose not to book again.

The operator will be balancing the potential penalty cost from delays without the insurance of a diesel on the back against complaints etc to come to a decision on how to run the train. It would be naive or insulting to suggest that they aren't smart enough to realise that some enthusiasts take a purist approach and won't book with a diesel. However those enthusiast bookings only become relevant if the train isn't already adequately full with people just wanting a novel day out.

I would suggest that a "Bath Christmas Market" trip is more likely to be heavily patronised by "ordinary" bods who see the steam haulage as only part of a day trip to Bath than say a Cotton Mill circular which is probably more enthusiast oriented.

One thing is pretty obvious and that is - no amount of whinging and demanding explanations on internet forums will override the commercial decisions on whether a train will be more or less profitable with a diesel for insurance. We can keep going over this as many times as we like, but I can't see the likes of James making any major policy changes as a result, no matter how irate we get about it.

(For the record - the 37 on the back has more nostalgia value for me than the BB on the front quite simply because I remember 37's as common haulage!)

 

I don't think anyone should shove buseng around but give him the respect he deserves for making a very good point with passion. Whether people are unhappy, never book on a steam tour again because of the diesel on the back doing all the work, I don't know.

What causes more frustration and annoyance than anything else is the inconsistency of it all.

I saw Tornado tonight at Woking heading off for London with no diesel on the back - I have seen Britannia recently without one too and there have been many other occasions when no diesel has been attached.

So, in order to put this issue to bed once and for all, someone at the top like Mr. Shuttleworth for example, needs to explain what constitutes a risk and what doesn't. Why did Britannia and Tornado run without a diesel on one of the busiest mainlines in the country and Tangmere did?

I work in the commercial world and issues raised are dealt with by provision of a detailed explanation of how it all works.

If someone such as messrs. Meaney and Shuttleworth had the time or inclination to dot the i's and cross the t's, this issue would go away. But because no one does, it comes up time after time after time.

Come on. You can do it gentlemen!

And buseng, all credit to you for sticking to your held beliefs. No one should ever be criticised for that.

Nick

 

What a strange argument. Perhaps this will help you. <BJ>
Railtour Info 2012

 

You probably are older than me but you have your opinions, I have mine. What difference does age make, experience on this subject does however. I was trying to explain the situation between both drivers to help the "shoving debate" but as your alot older you will obviously know all of this. Maybe the "youngens" on this forum don't so what's wrong with trying to educate people?

All I can say is that it would be nice to read topics rather than keep bringing every single topic onto the same old boring subject!