'The Capital Christmas Express'. 23rd November

So you were on the footplate were you and fully aware of what the crew could or could not hear?

Thought not.

 

I hate this talk about engines getting old etc. Yes they may have a build date and age but when they are overhauled every part of the locomotive is returned to as new condition or replaced with new. Th cause of the incident will be found but why it happened May never be found. Sometimes these things just happen but is nothing to do with how old the engine is.

 

Properly maintained a steam engine is perfectly safe to operate at 75mph where the track allows, this was a one off, mechanical failure can happen to any loco at any time ,up to now Tangmere has been a good performer, all the motion was renewed when it was restored, because i saw her in the early days and she arrived with no motion. one possible thing that has crossed my mind several times is , modern metal specs are different to what was used in steam days, a lot of the material isnt availible, are the modern equivilents as long lasting? prehaps things like pins whilst not showing wear externally, could be fracturing internally? that wouldnt be picked up on an FTR.

 

Unless the nut was loose you would struggle to tell if it was broken unless you remove it.

 

On a castellated nut it's also important to open the legs of the split pin to ensure that it can not work loose or snag on other parts of the mechanism.

 

Actually your posting makes it quite clear that maxima have indeed crept up from 60 to, in one instance, 90m.p.h. Genuinely I am keeping an open mind as to this (it was someone else's view) but it is something that will be need to be examined along with other issues. If a return to 60m.p.h. is a price which has to be paid for continuing to run on the mainline then so be it.

PH

 

No, you cannot say that a steam engine passed as fit to run on NR is "safe" at 60 mph, but not so at 75 mph.

Within the prescribed limits for that class of loco, ie with speed largely determined by wheel diameter, it is either fit to run or not fit to run.

We now need to wait for the results of investigations into why and how this failure happened.

46118

 

Some designers fitted stirrups of course to try and contain the flailing connecting rod - e.g. the NSWGR 38s, although there are probably some examples closer to home.

 

Reading this Nat Pres thread I was under the impression an investigation is well under way and almost concluded, and one result already formulated will be a 60 mph limit for all steam locomotives on the main line.

 

We need a full inquiry to be made on this incident. You don't have to think for too long before imagining the possibly consequences of this rod coming adrift whilst at speed and passing by a South West train service?

This loco was 'pressed' into operation following a major overhaul and had hardly time to let the crew get to grips with it again before going straight into a huge passenger run on Saturday. Far too many miles for a single day by a steam loco in my opinion. MUCH more stringent FTR steps should be undertaken on all main line steam and the commercial pressures to put locomotives into service should be vastly reduced. Please THINK SAFETY at all times, not money.

 

For the c

For the crew is just another steam engine. But for the guys who look after her will know her inside out and wouldn't let he run unless safe to do so. The FTR exams couldn't get any more stringent unless you start taking bits of for inspection. All ready a full mechanical exam and full brake test is carried out. Don't see what milage has to do with it doesn't make the slightest differnce and she had not just for from a major overhaul just repair work at Carnforth.

It's just a incident that happens unfortunately no differnt to a electric dragging the wires down as the pantograph has given way even tho it's just had a major exam!

 

The notion that because locomotives are old they become less safe is nonsense. The reciprocating and rotating parts although subject to fatigue were designed with high factors of redundancy and are tested with modern techniques to ensure integrity. Their design life is likely to be measured in centuries given the low mileages that heritage locomotives travel. (Boilers are more critical but are rigorously inspected and their safety is not speed related.) As Spamcan points out fasteners are inspected and routinely replaced during maintenance and overhaul.

Regarding the clanking, I think from the videos that the noise is unlike any I have previously heard from a Bulleid at speed. My memories go back to the 50s and certainly in the 60s, some were making a terrible racket. To detect from the footplate that there was a slightly different clank to usual would be very difficult.

 

Thank you Administrator. I take your points, but reaffirm the ones I said I'm afraid. Maybe the FTR exams need looking at?

On the question of mileages, I sincerely feel that 200 miles is quite enough for a steam operation in a single day. The support crews etc are already up for god knows how long for a normal day's train.

 

They have not "crept up," they were increased in one single step after much discussion etc.

 

Sad turn of events, railways are a challenge at any time; I saw that Brittania was running about 60 min late at one stage...why....cos the diesel on train in front couldn't get up a hill!! Breakdowns all the time, unfortunately not always a quick fix; no RAC or AA. Anyway, decision of SWT to get people home by stopping their last Weymouth service at Basingstoke was BRILLIANT. No doubt plenty of phone calls etc to arrange this, but although I was not on the train, I have just been on SWT site, 'contact us' , and sent praise and thanks for that decision. Hope plenty of others including the travellers have/will do the same because it was a BIG issue, very well handled by SWT....Pete

 

I was on the train as you know, and we were not going that fast, in fact we were slow/stop/start all the time from Waterloo, I have no idea why so many of you pontificate on here about allowable speeds and/or rising speed limits or nit-pick each other...It is not relevant imho in this case.

If the whole rod had come off even at 20-40mph and dug in then chances are the loco would have come off the rails, even if it stayed upright it could have infringed the adjacent fast line with 90-100mph trains going past all the time. Sunday Morning's headlines this weekend could have been been rather unpleasant reading. The official investigation will of course determine what happened and make any recommendations should it deem necessary. I think we and all of us and all of the Industry got away with this one thankfully. suggested reading : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settle_rail_crash http://www.cravenherald.co.uk/nosta..._night_Craven_folk_woke_to_rail_crash_horror/

http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/MoT_Settle1960.pdf

 

Sure this video was posted earlier, but can't find it.

Even after the event & the "offending" part removed, it still seems to be making a hell of a racket as it was being dragged out of Basingstoke (near the end of the video).

 

Totally agree with you, and I posted the same link somewhere above. Sadly however there are those in the camera totting fraternity who will tell you that you are just being 'alarmist'!