The Flying Scotsman Livery Poll

I would like to see the Scotsman run in BR experimental blue, if only for a short period before overhaul or after being launched into traffic again.

 

Thanks Neil and Ralph for that information. Ralph, if I wasn't interested in this topic then I wouldn't have got to the stage of posting the comments Neil responded to.

 

I always smile when I see these "livery posts". At the end of the day it's only a tin of paint, but BY GOD! Doesn't it bring out the aggressiveness and partisanship in many enthusiasts!

For my own part, I remember the A3's looked at their best with deflectors and BR Green livery, but at the end of the day, it isn't MY loco and I'm NOT paying for the repaint [At least not directly, whatever amount of taxpayer's money might be being used!].

I

 

I always smile when I see these "livery posts". At the end of the day it's only a tin of paint, but BY GOD! Doesn't it bring out the aggressiveness and partisanship in many enthusiasts!

For my own part, I remember the A3's looked at their best with deflectors and BR Green livery, but at the end of the day, it isn't MY loco and I'm NOT paying for the repaint [At least not directly, whatever amount of taxpayer's money might be being used!].

I think the main thing is that NRM have taken an awful lot of time and trouble [and flack!] to get 4472 up and running following years of hard work in previous ownership. They have also taken a pretty brave decision to re-use that A3 boiler which, to say the least, was "tired". What we are going to end up with is a loco that the general public will love to see and ride behind and THAT is why she was acquired. We, as enthusiasts, have to understand that we are very much a minority body these days and we should simply be grateful for the fact that "SCOTSMAN" will soon be back on the main line and in better form than ever!

 

Agree with everything you say Ian. When Pete Waterman turned the loco out in BR Green stating that "most people who could remember seeing the loco in service would have seen it in that livery", but he got no end of hassle over it.

 

While this poll is useful in that it clearly shows the majority of enthusiasts would prefer to see Scotsman out there in a reasonably authentic livery for the form it is in (and that is also my personal opinion, either single chimney apple green, or double chimney BR green), it is the general public that really count. I heard a good number of people say "that's not Flying Scotsman", when it did its tour of preserved lines in BR Green. If they turn up feeling that the loco isn't what they expected, perhaps an imposter, then they are less likely to turn up again. While, you can educate those on the train with leaflets describing the locos history, you might lose customers who've seen the loco out and about and don't buy that it's really Scotsman, and therefore don't book on a tour. Marketing could play a crucial role.

An idea would be to set up an interactive computer at the NRM with pictures of Flying Scotsman in all of its various forms and ask the question, "Click on the image that you most associate with Flying Scotsman". That way, you should get feedback from a mix of enthusiasts and the general public, which I would think to be far more useful if looking for info on whether people perceive livery / form as important to the Flying Scotsman brand.

 

As Amos Brierley would say "Nay, lad!" I can certainly remember A3's in service on BR and I am "only" 56! Nobbut a lad as yet!!

 

I have followed this thread with great interest. Lots of very passionate arguments on all sides, but I have to say that, although I do like to see authenticity, Scotsman will always be, in the minds of the majority of the public, an Apple Green engine with 4472 on the cabside. As such, then this, for now at least, is how she has to operate, if the public are going to be persuaded to ride behind her. Yes, I'd like to see her in blue, & also Brunswick Green at some point, & I have to say that Anthony's idea of Wartime Black is definitely a new one, but welcome too . As with the A1 Trust's repaint of Tornado into Brunswick Green, it WILL happen, but in a similar way, the public now associate Tornado as Apple Green too, and it's going to be her primary livery as well. Marketing, whether we as enthusiasts like it or not, is a MASSIVE thing to consider.

Regarding the smoke deflectors; well, as they're seemingly necessary for operation on Network Rail, then it's what we have to live with, regardless of the hue of the film keeping water off certain parts of the metalwork . Private lines, of course, are a different matter

I'm just grateful that Scotsman is still extant, & still here in the UK - it might not have been so, let's not forget, had history been different on more than one occasion. I still cannot understand, though, why, as the first AUTHENTICATED 'ton-up' locomotive, it wasn't saved for the nation in the 1960s. I don't suppose, now, that the full story will ever come out - or has it, & I missed it?

Thanks, too, to all, both at the NRM & also elsewhere, who have worked so hard to get this iconic locomotive back out where it belongs; on the main line.

Mark

 

Absolutely spot on Mark. We, the enthusiast market, are a minority faction and 4472 is how the vast majority of people remember the loco, hence it needs to operate as 4472 the majority of the time. Like many folks have said, though, it IS only a coat of paint and no doubt there will be occasions when different liveries may be used from time to time.

I for one am well pleased the loco is on the way back from her protracted, but very necessary, overhaul and look forward to riding behind the engine again!

Mind you - I would LOVE to have the chance to go behind 13000 in it's magnificent new coat of paint!!

 

Just wait until Summer, and you can have a go behind 13065 at the ELR in the same livery.

 

For being that i'm 16 i'm a BR fan myself, so i said BR green, Double chimmney and deflectors.

I know it never happened but i'd like to see a mock-up of it in BR lined black, i think it wouldn't look that bad.
Unusual i'll admit but not bad

 

Not Flying Scotsman, but Tornado in Black ...
http://northernblue109.fotopic.net/p68737550.html

GARRY

 

Yes, that does look good

As does the 4MT in red. Nicely done!

 

Back on subject of Flying Scotsman, did anybody see that picture in the editorial of the railway mag a few copies ago? Experimental purple...Thats what FS should be painted in. I was a bit miffed there wasn't an option for it in the poll (Now wheres that tongue in cheek smiley....) :lol:

 

I'm sure I saw on someone's website that they had mocked her up in ultramarine purple - it looked fantastic!

 

Indeed. I posted a link in the other Scotsman thread http://www.elegantsteam.com/BR a3_captain_cuttle.html

 

Without wanting to repeat some of the things already said - Flying Scotsman certainly should return in LNER green soon. Im sorry but most people will assosiate it as the true Apple Green locomotive, and continue to do so, long after Tornados novelty has been lost as more new build projects come to fruition.

The A3, is a fine example of engineering, but certainly should be kept steaming and running, due to the fact that so few Eastern region examples are left - something that history was cruel about to say the least. Flying Scotsman is the Flagship of the NRM operational engines now that this icconic locomotive is under their ownership. Whats needed now is a compromise between three areas. Firstly, of operations to allow it to run safely, efficiently and easily on the main national network. Secondly, pleasing Joe Public, who most would assosiate it being the LNER apple green machine that has generated the headlines over the last few decades, and won affections from its trips to Australia and America, two selling points that the NRM can use to great effect to justify a more international and much acclaimed image - rightly so. Finally, you need to try and cater for the enthusiasts who love the railways so much and who after gaining an interest, you would like Joe Public to become. At the moment, demographics would say that most people retired would remember the locomotive in BR livery, as with many other preserved groups operating their engines within a similar timeframe, as was the case when Flying Scotsman was perserved and became an LNER machine to the delight of those with the time and freedom to see it back in the 1970s who would have remembered it as a Gresley masterpiece during the 30's.

This all points to the LNER Apple Green, with deflectors to lift the smoke clear of the double chimney which makes the engine easier to steam and run. It could be argued that enthuiasts should accept that this is the more likely arangement and that in this guise 'HE' (I call engines with any link to gender approriately - its Flying ScotsMAN) is continuing his working career and as such should be accepted no matter what the paint is. Indeed many agree with this paint froth idea being less than impressive, due to the scheer number which didnt care in the pool.

Anyway, I look forward to seeing the engine back, and know from personal experience that the curator couldnt be a better man to continue this engines work and legacy.

 

The National Railway Museum (NRM) has today announced that Flying Scotsman will be painted in Wartime LNER Black before her Apple Green livery is applied this summer.

No.4472 will appear in this livery, with the letters ‘NE’ on the tender side and numbers ‘103’ on one side of the cab and ‘502’ on the other, when carrying out her steam tests and commissioning runs this spring/summer. She will also appear in this livery as part of the NRM’s planned Flying Scotsman Preview Weekend taking place on 28-30 May 2011.

Steve Davies, Director of the NRM, said: “When Flying Scotsman is completed this summer, she will of course be painted Apple Green. However, we couldn’t resist the opportunity to offer her fans a bit of variety by seeing her complete her steam tests and commissioning runs in Wartime LNER Black. The last time ‘Scotsman was seen in this livery was in World War Two, and this will be the first time that No.4472 or any other North Eastern Pacific has been seen in this livery during its preserved existence.”

When in her black livery, Flying Scotsman will also appear without smoke deflectors. However, these will be carried when she is completed and running on the main line in Apple Green.