The Great Britain VIII

I hope that they've got it right about the Exeter to Bristol section.

If the diesel is at the front of the formation it would only take a few minutes to transfer the 66 into Riverside Yard.

I notice that Britannia is due to be turned at Bristol this evening? It's first charter is a westbound charter from Westbury to Kingswear for RYTC 0n 15th May but if the loco is turned it would be facing the wrong way. After that it's booked for a Torbay Express but that has been cancelled. WSR bound perhaps? <BJ>

 

from an operational point of view what is best ? (ie needed to perform safely and better traction) pilot or bank engine ?

we have had rain down here so rails are slippery - devon banks are steep - what would the planners be thinking

 

RTC has chosen to rely on what seems ultimately to have been misplaced optimism on the part of WCRC concerning the likelihood of its reinstatement. Judging by the quotes to customers RTC had been offered assurances that the suspension would be lifted in time for WCRC to operate GB8 with steam. Wonder if WCRC offered to underwrite RTC losses if they postponed and refunded, which would have been a fair thing to do in the circumstances.
We will never know upon what basis WCRC reached that position of confidence but in hindsight its a shame RTC have battled to run it in a manner not of their choosing or of their making. It can only be assumed there has been some misinterpretation by WCRC of the feedback from NR in relation to the improvement actions that has led WCRC to form the view that all would be well again by now.

 

Let's look at this in a slightly different way; adding a pilot loco (diesel or steam) is far more authentic from a railway operating perspective than having a banker attached from Plymouth to Exeter and - in the present climate - it's worth bearing in mind that it is a also probably a more robust and practical solution. If I were on board I would be reasonably happy with this compromise given what might have been the alternative.

 

I dont recall ever mention my feelings, so really not sure what they have to do with it. I was merely commenting that the pax were traveling behind steam. (ok its not up front all the time, but the pax are behind it)

Edit, I am not frothing about it, not moaning about the fact I can't video it, never had any intention (even before the WCRC debacle) of videoing this tour at this point.

I wonder why certain members find it impossible to make points without getting personal.

 

https://www.facebook.com/Railholida...87932127893/10152835741502894/?type=1&theater

photo of the GB8 at St Germans a short while ago courtesy of www.railholiday.co.uk

 

Lol - Nice plug!

 

I think Nigel Harris of Rail understands what is going on, in a way that some perhaps are not fully seized of. GB8 is being run as a day-by-day pay-as-you-go train, reluctantly operated by a substitute TOC that didn't want to do it, wasn't involved in the planning, wasn't asked to bid for it, doesn't count the tour promoter as a customer, and probably doesn't understand why it wasn't pulled when the original firm got into difficulties three weeks ago. This is unprecedented. Despite all that, DBS are going as far as they dare (at very late notice) without incurring the wrath of Berlin headquarters or being held culpable for dumping 300 innocent people in Bristol this evening. As of today "as far as they dare" is Edinburgh on Friday. The rest of the itinerary remains a work-in-progress with some quite frantic and heroic negotiation between the train and Doncaster. The video below will explain, in layman's terms, how you run a 9 day £600,000 tour on this basis.

 

The good reason will surely have been the financial cost of not doing! Whether they had grounds for good faith in doing so is another matter and could only have been based on the responses being received from NR about the possibility of an early lifting of the suspension. The obvious inference being that the progress being made was positively received by NR and this gave WCRC a firm belief the suspension would be favourably reviewed. Either final progress wasn't made in time or WCRC misunderstood the amount of improvement still to be made that would satisfy NR.

 

I have the utmost sympathy with all on board, however the pairing does have previous for not delivering as promised.

Only on this occasion, it seems on a grander scale....

Hope for everyone's sake that a rail cruise offering sufficient variation and destinations can be delivered.

For all of their faults RTC, does not deserve this, your UK mainline scene would be a worse place without them.......

Somebody in the know mentioned that the DBS portion finishes at Carnforth tonight, could it be being passed to DRS next???

 

Ranting? Really? "Good Authority" means nothing? I think Hatherton Hall has hit the nail on the head and so have I when it comes to "hot off the press" news such as the train being diesel from Bristol instead of the Black 5's and the train terminating at Carnforth. That information can only have come from someone who knows. Clearly the identity of said source cannot be revealed.

 

I've just read it and it is quite revealing in terms of how WCR seemed to consider ORR as just keeping an eye on how things are going with NR. Read it, it is worthwhile.

 

Scots Guardsman is in steam at Carnforth Steamtown now, 1300 Wed.

I have no idea what happens next, if anything.

Andrew N

 

I think David Smith has underestimated the gravity of the situation from the beginning.

I might add that I take absolutely no satisfaction in saying this. To his great credit, Mr Smith has built a successful business which has given pleasure and interest to thousands. It is a real shame that its future is in doubt. AN

Andrew N

 

Based on past history, I could easily see how that might be the case.

 

I think there are a lot of assumptions in that trying to judge RTC's actions against information none of us know. None of us know what the contract between WCRC and RTC included, nor the nature of any penalty clauses in the event of the inability of the former to deliver the contracted service (i.e. steam haulage); nor what insurance either party may have been able to obtain to lay off the operating risks.

What I would say is that, trapped between a rock and a hard place, trying to run the tour with non-steam traction seems preferable to me than cancelling at short notice. There will be some - probably disproportionately represented on this forum - for who steam haulage was the sine qua non of the trip. No doubt some of them will bail out at Bristol and try to get a refund. But for many on board, the opportunity to have an escorted tour round the country, with the organisational hassle taken by someone else, is probably a major factor, and provided the train runs as planned, they will still get a substantial part of what they want - not 100%, but not 0% either. Imagine the counter situation: cancelling at perhaps a few days notice. What would you say to a visitor arriving at Heathrow or Gatwick, with a two week holiday in the UK booked but nothing beyond their first night in a London hotel actually delivered? It's not realistic to say, as some have, "they could do the same route themselves on service trains at a lower cost": for many people, having somebody handle all the logistics is a key part of the package.

So - obviously have to see how this ultimately plays out to the end - but in the circumstances, I think RTC have done the right thing by trying to deliver some kind of tour, albeit without much steam haulage, rather than no tour. I hope those on board can at least enjoy the journey, the new friendships they'll make and their evenings in different towns up and down the land. Only the sound up front for a few hours each day will be different.

As for videographers frothing on railway forums about what a disaster this is - plenty of steam out there to see if you want to. Unless you have paid, I don't think you can complain.

Tom

 

I will. Have to fight my way past the car mag readers.

 

The RTC was in a bind. This is its major headline tour of the year. If you cancel the tour then you miss any chance to salvage and maybe run a good tour depending on how things pan out in the coming days. So they went with it. So far based on what's happened, not rumour or conjecture, they have run two days primarily with steam. Savage RTC by all means, but I would wait till the tour is over before a pound of flesh is called for. Only at the end can you say if it was a good idea or not.

 

So why are DBS doing it if they are so reluctant, they have zero to gain (apart from the fee from WCRC) and risk merely being tarnished with the same brush when it all goes majorly belly up? - I am not doubting your comment it just makes no commercial sense if they don't want to do it?