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The Great Britain XVI - 13/04/24 to 21/04/24

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by Paul42, Jul 26, 2023.

  1. JBTEvans

    JBTEvans Part of the furniture

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    Depends. I wouldn't be happy spending £4k riding around in Mk2E.

    With the Mk1 & ORR issue and lack of locos being available, RTC should really be asking customers for their opinion, but I doubt that has been done.
     
  2. charterboy

    charterboy New Member

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    I certainly wouldn't do it ever again. That ship has now sailed, especially with the more frequent addition of the diesel loco on rear of the train rather than shadowing as used to occur

    RTC didn't bother gauging the passengers opinion on the one which ended up with multiple DB diesel locos and then once it got into Scotland ended up being service trains as DB couldn't resource. That was the one where Wcrc had lost their operating licence at that point in time and the one where I left half way through once it got to Edinburgh and then got a refund from RTC for what was an absolute farce
     
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  3. charterboy

    charterboy New Member

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    Checked my records this morning and thought this summary might be of interest to others of the GB tours I did

    GB3 - 2010 - 7 locos - 5029, 44871, 45407, 46201, 60019, 61994, 70013
    GB4 - 2011 - 9 locos - 5029, 44871, 45305, 45407, 46115, 60007, 60019, 61994, 70013
    GB6 - 2013 - 6 locos - 34067, 44871, 45407, 60009, 60019, 61994
    GB7 - 2014 - 9 locos - 5029, 34046, 44871, 44932, 45407, 46115, 46233, 60009, 62005
    GB8 - 2015 - 1 loco - 70000, then diesel locos 66039, 66109, 66122, 66561, 67018
    GB9 - 2016 - 4 locos - 44871, 45690, 45699, 46100
     
  4. Dinting RIP

    Dinting RIP New Member

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    RTC are absolutely terrible when it comes to communication!
     
  5. John Petley

    John Petley Part of the furniture

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    I suspect, to be fair to RTC, that it is currently having to put a lot of effort in to trying to make GB XVI happen in some form or other. As far as the UK is concerned, it is their flagship product. The website still suggests that passengers will be traveling in "a British Railway MK 1 first class open carriage." For all we know, WCRC may be working its socks off in an attempt to fit CDL to the rake it uses to try and ensure that the tour can go ahead (After all, this must be quite a money spinner for WC too). The lack of loco allocations and timings on RTT suggests that whether or not my surmise is correct, a lot is going on behind the scenes. I hope that for the benefit of those who have shelled out at least £3,000, they do get what is advertised and not eight days of "coffins". I would agree that an e-mail to prospective travellers wouldn't go amiss, to let them know that they are working flat out to try and ensure the tour goes ahead, but these tours take a lot of organisation even without all the current WCRC/ORR aggro, so I think we should cut them a bit of slack.
     
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  6. 16Ventnor

    16Ventnor Member

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    RTC have kept me in touch as I have been emailing and requesting updates on the situation. The replies aren't the news I wanted to hear, however. And the report in Railway Herald last week that their understanding was that the new WCR exemption application doesn't include any proposals or plans for CDL doesn't give me any hope.
    By the time I realised in January this was the most likely outcome the final balance request had just arrived and pulling out would have meant losing the deposit (x2). Having worked in an industry where we had to be squeaky clean in our claims and descriptions I'm always amazed how the charter industry can get away with such false claims via their T&Cs. Yes, I realise there might likely be consequences for them but looking at it from my side I've paid out thousands of pounds for something I'm likely not going to enjoy as our main aim these days is being able to sit back and enjoy listening to the locos cope with the terrain as we do in a Mk1 or a Mk 2 with draw lights. Different from a short notice problem like a land slip or sudden heatwave this issue has been known about for months and I felt should have put a deadline that if it wasn't confirmed as the stock to be used by a certain date then the passengers should have been an option to withdraw or the train cancelled. The current situation is misrepresentation, of what is advertised, of the highest order. For this household the payment of £7,358 is laying very heavily at the moment and I've had to commit to never doing this again. The future for us will lay with the A1 and the Castles once we can afford to do so again.
    RTC report the final tickets and tour details were sent out out yesterday .
    By the way I was on GB1 so to add to the list above there were 7 locos, 71000, 6024 piloted by 5051, 46233, 60009 solo and piloted by 61994 also sometimes solo, 48151 solo and with occasional interference by a class 47.
     
  7. 30567

    30567 Part of the furniture Friend

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    Last edited: Mar 29, 2024
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  8. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Given your long term involvement with the GB, it strikes me that your commitment to the RTC is similar to that of @1020 Shireman. If what you are being told is going to be a long way away from what was described when you booked then I don't see why you should not withdraw and ask the RTC whether they intend to insist on their T&Cs given the circumstances.

    There is of course the elephant in the room and that is whether the RTC will challenge WCRC for failing to deliver what they promised but that of course depends on what the contract with the RTC says. It's not enough for WCRC to say, for example, "We agreed to provide you with a train over an agreed route and we will do that. We didn't promise any particular motive power or rolling stock so you have no claim on us to compensate for any people who withdraw."

    It really is a messy one as, like me, who has only booked 50+ RTC day trips plus a handle of GBs, I wouldn't want to make life difficult for Kelly and the team. But money is money.
     
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  9. charterboy

    charterboy New Member

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    When the 2015 trip descended into an utter farce and being in service trains in Scotland by which time I had abandoned early to come home, that was not before I'd made sure on the train there would be some financial recompense from leaving the tour early

    From memory they issued us with a pro rata refund for the days that advertised steam wasn't delivered

    Therefore this year, from what I can see, steam will appear each day and heritage charter stock albeit MK2s will be provided so sadly I can't see there being any comeback from a passenger perspective as steam and heritage stock is being delivered

    A sorry state of affairs, but the GB hasn't been the same since 2014 hence why after the 2015 farce I only did one further GB as I felt I had unfinished business with steam over the climbs in Scotland

    2016 turned out to be a shoveathon whereby I made my concerns a known on the tour itself, but fell on deaf ears from RTC as they said steam was being delivered

    2016 was the first tour that Kelly, then as office manager was on to give some customer relations perspective after the farce of 2015 where the volunteer stewards and train manager Les were getting all the flack

    The only silver lining from 2015 was I suspect it's the only time a charter train will be banked by a loco working a coal train, so I have the unique memory of that
     
  10. JBTEvans

    JBTEvans Part of the furniture

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    I really feel for you and totally agree with what you are saying. I have a day trip booked in May and am not really looking forward to it if it's Mk2 air con stock and not with 45596.
     
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  11. Mick45305

    Mick45305 Member

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    Final details landed through the post this morning. It is, as expected, with Mk2s in the consist and duties shared between Tangmere, 44871 and 45407.

    The vast majority of the legs are with the Fives paired up, the exception being 44871 from Victoria around Kent to Southall, 44871 to Kyle and 34067 from Lancaster to Carlisle then from Carlisle to Liverpool.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2024
  12. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Given the prestige nature of the trip and the lead-in time one might hope that WCRC will include their generator car in the mix.
     
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  13. 2857Harry

    2857Harry Member

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    Question is does that actually help? I’d imagine it’s a solid load 11/12? Surely adding the weight of a Genny car would make it overload anyway. So then a diesel would be necessary?!

    and certainly on the Kyle trip I’d imagine a Genny car would take up the place of a coach full of fare paying punters and make it unviable to run?
     
  14. jonathonag

    jonathonag Well-Known Member

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    Without sounding too cruel, 'full of fare paying punters' might be a stretch.

    I know of several people who booked the full GB, and are now choosing not to travel due to the current situation regarding Air Con Mk2's and likely diesel involvement sadly. RTC, and WCRC, will have the money but some vacant seats from them.

    I note that there's still single day seats available for the Kyle outing, looking at RTC's website.
     
  15. 16Ventnor

    16Ventnor Member

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    I know how they feel but that's a heck of a lot of money to lose for no travel at all.
     
  16. Paul42

    Paul42 Part of the furniture

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    Usually 10, 7nr 1st class opens, kitchen car , brake and support coach.
     
  17. jonathonag

    jonathonag Well-Known Member

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    I suppose the way to look at it is, if you're not going to get the intended enjoyment out of it, you're saving yourself 9 days of hurt and potentially paying for a hotel either side of the railtour (plus travel) to attend. Damage limitation?
     
  18. 16Ventnor

    16Ventnor Member

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    Yes, I see what you mean. We too have hotels booked at either end. We shall have to aim for the nearest or best real ale tavern at each overnight stop to drown our sorrows..
     
  19. Mick45305

    Mick45305 Member

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    I decided a while ago I was going to travel come what may. I understand how it won’t feel the same to many, I much prefer travelling in Mk1s and early Mk2s and being able to soak up the sound through the toplights.

    But having got over that initial disappointment, it makes me realise how so much else about the GB appeals to me greatly. This year’s iteration has a whole smattering of new routes for me to tick off with steam. Travelling via Stoke and Alsager to get to Crewe on Day 2 is an unexpected surprise.

    And watching all the operational side of things being delivered by everyone involved is another aspect of what makes the GB so enjoyable.
     
  20. Waterbuck

    Waterbuck Member

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    .... what he said, some of us will still see positives and its uniqueness.
    Plus not much in life stays the same.
     
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