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The Great Britain XVI - 13/04/24 to 21/04/24

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by Paul42, Jul 26, 2023.

  1. sgthompson

    sgthompson Part of the furniture Friend

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    According to RTC it’s 34067 Lancaster to Carlisle and from Carlisle it’s the fives .Talking about the fives I assume this is the path for the pair . https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:U07979/2024-04-15/detailed
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2024
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  2. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    The more that this GB tour unfolds the more it seems a case of "Ian Riley saves the day". Not for the first time does his pair of locos provide the bulk of the motive power and their versatility prove to be well worth his investment in them.

    You get the feeling that when his 'Shaw Saville' gets on the road it will probably be equipped to haul all types of rolling stock and with whatever braking system they need.
     
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  3. agalpin

    agalpin Member

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    Daft question for the professional railway people.
    But heritage railways use diesel translators for braking when hosting air braked only diesels at galas. Would this work in reverse?
    Is this banned on the main line?
    There was talk before of shovage from the rear being frowned upon but it now seems common place.
    Surely if they could put the box behind the steam loco as a translator, then more steam locos could work the GB this year?
     
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  4. Karlh

    Karlh New Member

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  5. charterboy

    charterboy New Member

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    Well luckily they are "available", given their previous booking for the Jacobite has been postponed at the moment

    Just imagine what the motive power would be on the GB if the Jacobite was running
     
  6. sgthompson

    sgthompson Part of the furniture Friend

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    If the Jacobite was running that would mean West Coast had MK1’s ready to run plus possibly another set to do the GB but obviously that’s not the case simple as .
     
  7. mike1522

    mike1522 Long Time Member Friend

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    45212 is the other Black 5 with dual brakes believe. Powered some of the Northern Belle last year
     
  8. charterboy

    charterboy New Member

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    Jacobite could run with Mk2's if they wanted to run it. Nothing says it has to be MK1’s
     
  9. 2857Harry

    2857Harry Member

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    True but it is made much more difficult with the CDL.

    CDL would required a diesel/generator car, which in either event looses a full fair paying coach. And thus makes it less viable
     
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  10. 30567

    30567 Part of the furniture Friend

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    some interesting posts on the tech side on WNXX today.
     
  11. 46203

    46203 Member

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  12. sgthompson

    sgthompson Part of the furniture Friend

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    Very true as Harry mentioned but I’m not sure how many MK2’s with CDL are operating out of Carnforth at the moment. If they’ve only got the one set they would then have nothing to do the RTC tours .
     
  13. charterboy

    charterboy New Member

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    They could always hire in from Riviera

    Plus they've had plenty of time to get CDL fitted but decided to purchase more MK1’s from Riviera last year....
     
  14. charterboy

    charterboy New Member

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    Not necessarily losing a coach as a result of that, could run with an extra coach, just makes it more complicated operationally to pass the service train or other Jacobite or to run round at Mallaig

    All things possible if as they keep saying how profitable the Jacobite is, if they wanted it to run
     
  15. 2857Harry

    2857Harry Member

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    But again does it make it more profitable? Nobody seems to consider that any profits are eaten up with the cost of paying for a diesel crew, fuel, etc
     
  16. jonathonag

    jonathonag Well-Known Member

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    Maximum is Load 7 for a Black 5 and K1 on the Jacobite.

    Out of curiosity, what is the weight difference between a typical loaded Mk1 and a generator coach? If the latter is much heavier, you may not just be replacing a coach like for like, but removing another to accommodate the extra weight.
     
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  17. 30567

    30567 Part of the furniture Friend

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    Exactly. Plus, to cover the NB, the RTC/own English programme and the Jacobite, you probably need to be air braking BIL and SG to do the CME etc.

    I fully sympathise with the proposition that they should have had a plan B and that continuing to rail against the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune is a mistake. But the other proposition that doing up a set of Mk 1s is a piece of cake, just bust a gut and do it, no, I don't buy that.
     
  18. 5944

    5944 Resident of Nat Pres

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    It won't make any difference - the luggage capacity of a Mk1 BSK is 2 1/2 tons, and I don't believe any extra work was needed to accommodate the weight of the generator fitted to Riviera's 35469. Ironically, WCRC had a Mk1 BSK with a generator, but scrapped it a year ago.

    http://www.cs.rhrp.org.uk/se/CarriageInfo.asp?Ref=1824

    For powering CDL, surely a small generator fitted under the brake vehicle would be sufficient? WCRC have fitted at least one of their kitchen cars with a small generator underneath, so it is possible.
     
  19. Romsey

    Romsey Part of the furniture

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    Hang on, possible solutions to a problem are being offered.
    That will never do!

    Cheers, Neil
     
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  20. Beardy

    Beardy New Member

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    As mentioned previously elsewhere West Coast seemed to manage to run a full length train (7 coaches) with a diesel in the consist on 1 departure each day during periods of fire risk without any problems in the past. Running a full 2 train service might be a problem but nothing to stop them running a 1 train service in theory. Given that previously it was viable for the second service to operate with 1 less coach it also seems reasonable to assume 6 coaches (of which 1 is possibly staff only so potentially only 5 passenger coaches) is at least sufficient to break even but most likely could turn a profit. This means on a 7 coach train, which has effectively 16-20% extra revenue, unless the diesel, driver and fuel costs more than the revenue earned from that extra coach (which seems highly unlikely) then running with a diesel is a viable prospect even if it is not quite as profitable. Also arguably less Stewards would be required (assuming they planned to have sufficient stewards this year!) with CDL so presumable that would offset some of the costs to a very very small degree.

    It might not be operationally possible but I believe other charters have also gone to Mallaig with longer trains so another option, if cost was the issue with adding the diesel for powering CDL, could be to run a single train with more coaches. Doing so would have required additional hauling power and as a 2nd steam loco would increase costs even more this potentially would be the diesel in the consist providing some assistance either from the rear or tucked in behind the steam loco. I know that is a sacrilegious suggestion to many on this forum but it may have been a short term workaround if West Coast really wanted to find one. I am sure some of the passengers would be disappointed but I suspect a significant number especially the tourists wanting to go on the "Harry Potter" viaduct, as they would probably term it, behind a steam engine probably would not care or would at least be happier than their trip being cancelled outright.

    Apologies for continuing the thread drift off the topic of the GB.

    Back on topic it would seem to me RTC are rather stuck between a rock and a hard place. One the one hand some of the passengers may be very disappointed that the tour is now due to be in Air Con Mk2s on the other some customers may well be coming from overseas and have planned a visit to the UK around the tour spending a significant chunk of change to travel over potentially including some organised tour groups. In addition I imagine by the time they knew RTC will likely have paid a vast sum to all the hotels passengers will be staying in and possibly smaller quantities to some of the other suppliers like coach companies making cancelling the tour, as some have suggested, a non-starter .
     
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