The great photo charter debate

In the end, it all comes down to what you want your photography to be. I would like to think that those who do photography as a hobby treat it as an art form and are looking for something that bit different; something that will stand out amongst the rest. I know that it is hard to get that illusive 'master shot' but isn't that what it should be all about? I can't understand the idea behind a load of people, all lined up in a row, all essentially taking the same front three-quarter view, which is what invariable happens. But each to their own, I guess.
You won't be the first person to assassinate me, or at least try as I think I'm still alive whilst I type this.

 

Many of the "greats" rarely ventured beyond the standard 3/4 front view - that's why Colin Gifford caused such a stir when he arrived on the scene. Photography like all art is subjective - there are those who will always prefer a Constable to a Picasso and vice versa but this doesn't make either better than the other, they simply appeal to a different audience. In photography some people simply want a record of what they've seen whilst others will go far beyond that and go to all manner of lengths to capture something different, Both approaches have equal validity and to be honest it's been that way for as long as I can remember.

 

I think you do need a good eye for unusual shots, and sadly I don't seem to get it as much as I'd like, most I think look OK from a distance, having stood in the spot and surveyed the scene, look utterly crap, maybe its an awareness/state of mind thing, I dunno.

 

Well I've enjoyed my time (limited) on charters at the Bluebell, a chance to get re-acquanted with the line that used to be my local(ish) when I was growing up in South London. The volunteers also seem to like doing something different, the railway gets the chance to sell more bacon butties/tea/cakes and generally everyone seems to enjoy themselves from the "point and shoot brigade" through the full framer's to the Leica owners, plus medium format and 35mm film diehards and not forgetting the videographers. I won't be popping over to see the Black Five though as I've got one of them at the bottom of my garden.
Oh, as an afterthought I am not a great fan of black clag in every shot, happy to see some nice clean eaxhaust and I do like a reasonably authentic mix of loco and stock. I enjoy the chance of seeing non-BR liveries, a big plus for the Bluebell, along with an excellent selection of non-mk1 stock, although I also have no objection to BR black, green or blue! When 499 is outshopped from Ropley in LSWR livery and a stovepipe chimney I will no doubt take some pictures of that too!

 

An interesting post from an outsider's point of view, if I can call you that Steve (not meant derogatory by the way). I look at what gets produced on charters quite a lot and often feel that the best shots are taken away from the charter scene. A lot of the photographs I admire aren't 'staged', so to speak, but taken in an opportune moment either on a preserved railway or on the mainline in circumstances that might be unrepeatable. A recent example is the big bash in Scotland with 44871 and 45407, I haven't seen anything truly outstanding as per previous charters up there. This one seemed to fall quite flat and with the proliferation of photographs on the internet it has been hard to see if anyone actually took a different shot from the person they were standing next to.

However the alternative point-of-view is that the charter allows you to photograph something you don't see in everyday terms. I went to Didcot to see 6023 on shed at night and thoroughly enjoyed myself and took some good shots. Yes quite few were the same as everyone else but it was different from turning up to Didcot on a normal running day. I'm off to Portmadoc tomorrow for a charter with Merddin Emrys and 60 slate waggons - why? Because the FR don't run slate trains anymore except at the May and October gala weekends. This year they ran England engines on the slate and no Double-Engine so the charter fills a gap in my interest in wanting to photograph something different.

 

Only just seen this thread.

Interesting that two of the "anti" posters (61624 + Steve), both actively support a railway which is receiving income from hosting 5 days of charters this month, on days when the railway in question wouldn't be getting any income at all.

I'd argue that charters are the ideal place to try something different from the usual 3/4 front shot - last charter I was on, was the WD at KWVR, and time was spent in one of the tunnels trying to get something different - not something you could, or would want to try on a normal running day or gala.

 

I've never been on a charter (and have only witnessed part of one on my way to work) but I personally love the images that result and cannot get enough of them.

 

In regards to recent bash in Scotland featuring 44871 and 45407, in comparision to previous years which have been organised much further in advance, this years was a late player and so was constrained by engineering works. It, coupled with other issues such as one passenger taking ill, meant we were pushed for time and often we were lucky to get even a second runpast at various locations, and locations were limited due to such lack of time. It meant, for the money I paid, I wanted to experiment ( and I did with a few shots ), but also I wanted to come away with shots that could justify having paid the £230 without every shot either failing, or the train being too lost in the scenery. And, with reference to your second paragraph, the WHL Bash 2014 has matched exactly the reason why you went to Didcot, it provided something different. Some of the photographers on there ( myself included ), this was our first time, and it allowed us to fill in some gaps in our portfolios.

Charters are just that, for self gain of acheiving something you didn't imagine you'd see in day to day life. They have their place in the railway scene just as much. Unless railways choose to reguarly run freights, or a few banana vans inbetween the engine and solo Mk1 ( which is likely to restrict income from passenger loadings ), then there will always be a demand for a charter.

 

I come to this debate from an unusual standpoint. I'm a charter participant, a charter organiser and a loco "owner," I've even "chartered" my "own" loco. Whilst not that active in the charter arena at present, sine 1996 I have organised many charters and participated in a few more. 34081 has benefited by several thousand pounds as a result of the events I've organised and to be honest, that's the most important thing to me. Whether the photographers are "point and shoot" or the next "Colin Gifford" is of no consequence. As long as the photographers have had a good time, the railway has got something out of it and 34081 has benefitted, that's all that matters for me. Why people have to look down their nose and charters and photographers is beyond me. If it's not your scene then fair enough but why belittle those who do enjoy it? This hobby of ours is a very broad church and there's room for people of all tastes. I disagree also that only the past "greats" could take a decent photograph. There are many contemporary photographers who turn out excellent work. some published, some not.

 

As one of the "charter bashers" I concur with Sidmouth et alia that the charter is not only about photographing the bog standard 3 quarter view but essentially a chance to experiment. Due to the proclivities of age I can no longer reach bend down to get the lower angles or climb fences / jump ditches / climb up and down embankments therefore have to depend on zoom lenses to create alternative shots.

In that case what value the charter ? Immediately it alerts me to my physical restriction(s) incumbent on old age; photographically the runpasts give me opportunities to try various lens / zoom ranges to capture a variety of shots that would otherwise need more than one visit to gain or try different techniques (e.g panning) where there are sufficient runpasts to make more than one attempt; personally it is a chance to meet like-minded colleagues then share experiences, compare techniques, review latest cameras / lenses and share hints on good / bad locations on the main line. At the end of a day's session I reckon to have 100+ images worthy of reproduction and I am content that I have recorded another locomotive in an unusual way (either by visiting a different line or working an unusual mix of rolling stock) whilst the crews have had a relaxing day (albeit a lengthy one); the host railway has gained income from catering and the locomotive owner has achieved what he wants - to see his locomotive working and being appreciated.

As Sidmouth notes there are many pros and cons but when the number of main-linelocations are being reduced by pallisade fencing, the number of steam runs are being reduced by various safety rules and the number of trains being run are reducing as costs rise the charter option is a more appealing way of getting steam-hauled trains whilst helping to contribute through the charter fees.

In simple terms if it's a choice of paying £60:00 to travel behind steam traction on the main line or paying £70:00 to join a charter then my money goes to the charter; a case methinks of "I pays my money and makes my choice"!

 

I agree that the photography standards vary greatly but whilst the important fact is that each participant "gets his money's worth" it is also important to acknowledge that there are many fine photographers who photograph for personal pleasure with no view to have their images published. There are many on the charters which I attend who have a fine gallery of work and whose opinions I value yet their names and standards are not known outside the attendees of charters.

And to refer to an earlier post - the "greats" whose work is much admired achieved much because they arranged the effects beforehand; in the case of Eric Treacy - for example - he became so well-known to Edge Hill crews that he was easily recognisable when at the lineside and the "smoke effect" immediately created for the photograph(s) he was taking. Since many of the other quoted photographers also photographed within specific areas they would soon become known to crews and the appropriate effects created without further ado. Sadly the organisation of today's railways makes such friendships difficult to attain although Eddie Bobrowski is one photographer who seems to achieve it with main-line crews.

 

Really? What rules?

 

Possibly badly worded but if one considers Fitness To Run failures with no back-up loco leading to cancellations or Drivers' Hours regulations leading to non-availability of crews leading to train cancellations or Fire Hazard leading to train cancellations as "Safety Rules" then my point stands as each of these factors (and consequent cancellations) has occurred during the 2013 operating season.

 

Yes, a fair point now I see your line of thinking.

 

With Mainline workings if you try something different, and it doesn't come off, your chance for any shot has usually gone as the train races away to it's destination some 200 miles distant at 75MPH, if you have traveled some distance to the location with the resultant time and expense, you don't really want to risk coming away empty handed.

Bit easier on preserved lines with resident loco's as if you are a regular visitor, there's plenty of chances to get them again, visiting loco's I tend to take less of a risk on given it might be the only time I see them.

What I'm trying to say is in many circumstances, a standard shot is better than risking no shot if the something different option doesn't work, can't hit "rewind" and try again outside of charters and some gala's.

 

And that reason is why I think it's better to try and be more creative when you only get one chance because the feeling will be more satisfying if it comes off. I'm quite prepared to spend all day, driving several hundred miles, to attempt a good creative shot and come away with nothing rather than take a bog-standard 3/4 shot. It's the weighing up of risk/reward and deciding what side you prefer to lie on.