THE KENTISH BELLE ARMISTICE DAY (Tangmere now via Bromley)

It's not a side issue is it though? What if yesterdays train hadn't been able to restart? Nearly 5 hours late back anyway, so how much longer would it have been stood still? Simply not robust enough.
If steam cant climb hills or fit in with other traffic then there is only one answer, ain't there?

 

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Totally agree Al. Adding to your post I would say that sometimes the knowledge of what was achieveable back in real steam days can be of really great help to those planning current steam trip schdeules. If that knowledge is used. I've adapted and sent off into the system one or two of my logs from the 1960s to show the sort of schedule that could be used today with the same loco class, same loads but with modern speed restrictions. I'm just waiting to see what emerges. Not that those adaptations had anything whatsoever to do with July 9th this year when 34067, bless her, gave me my second fastest ever time to Southampton. Even though we had checks including the time honoured check at St Denys/Northam Juction that meant I never timed an on time arrival at Southampton on down 2 hour expresses in the 1960s. With the right will and common sense applied, running from those days can and is still being achieved well into the 21st Century.

But sometimes even that historic knowledge should not be needed. An understanding of the very basics of operating a failry heavy train hauled by a loco, of any power type, with just three pairs of traction wheels over a steeply graded route during a notoriously bad time of year is all that is needed.

Thankfully common sense prevailed to some extent during that day, as I would guess the reason that Tornado was not sent up the Maidstone East line on it's return was that those at the coal face had an idea of what could happen, after they had dealt with a 92 class on a freight slipping to a stand on that line earlier in the day.

Just hope Tangy comes back soon and sets us all smiling again!

 

How steep is the bank from Martin Mill compared to the line via Canterbury East? Surprising that the heavier train was ok, or am I missing something.

Shame for the passengers, hope they come back again for another steam tour.

Stephen

 

I fervently hope I am wrong, but, this appears to be another example of NR trying to force steam off the main line by imposing routeings/schedules which it knows are almost certain to lead to problems, allowing it to ban steam because of the delays caused. The staggering ineptitude required to have devised this path with a stop (Deal) for no good passenger pick-up/set down reason at the foot of the worst bank on the entire route in the height of the leaf fall season surely cannot have been anything but conspiracy, rather than cock-up! Bulleids (and 'light' ones in particular) are well known for their tendency to slip, and any steam schedule planner should have known this characteristic would lead to potential problems from a standing start there.

A couple of shots in happier times as 'Tangmere' left London are attached, albeit the close-up being at the moment of a vigorous slip on the cross-over.


By the way (for what it's worth) I generally try to get past the nick-names used on this forum, but terms such as 'kettle' and 'box' are annoying and very reminiscent of schoolboys revelling in not-very-secret codes! Still, a total of two letters saved over using 'steam' and 'diesel', so it must be well worth it.

 

Doesn't need to be the case of assistance for all trains, does it?, however, if someone plans to start a light pacific, from Deal, in the middle of autumn, then it would have been sensible to have something on the back to ensure that the train could get away in a reasonable manner, don't see what is wrong with a diesel on the back in such circumstances, it is just good railway work

 

As conspiracy theories go that's pretty poor. I suppose someone sent those 2 light engines down the ECML the other Friday just so they would set the railway ablaze and screw the service up and make the steam guys look like a bunch of halfwits?
Honestly.....

 

There are far easier ways of getting steam off the main line. Noone in their right mind would deliberatly do what you have suggested has been done.

I have used the phrase kettle for many a year. I dont use as a deogratry phrase....

Ever heard the phrase "sticks and stones......"?

 

Not a photo but I found this video on Youtube of 60163 passing 34067 at Dover: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNBtSzb5hK8&feature=feedlik

What an unfortunate turn of events for the RTC trip. I hope that some of those on board for the first time will give a steam tour another try.

The "diesel on the back" argument has flared up yet again. May I remind folks on here that having the diesel on the back only helps when the loco is reliable. My Father and I still have "flashbacks" to the nightmare CE trip to Lincoln in April of this year also with 34067. The "assisting" diesel on the rear, a class 37 was supposed to give 34067 a shove along the ECML so she kept to time. However, the diesel caused all of the delays on the outward run as it kept conking out. The trip never recovered much time after this as 34067 then failed on the return.

Also would a diesel on the back have struggled with adhesion as well as the track conditions were that bad on 11/11/11? Still if there had been one the delays may not have been so severe. No doubt an investigation will be made into this trip.

 

From Deal towards Dover you start on 1 in 88, it then eases a little (140) before becoming 1 in 70 after Walmer, increasing briefly to 1 in 64 near where the train stalled. It eases to 1 in 120 at Martin Mill and then eases further, 1 in 210, towards Guston tunnel which is actually over the peak, on a down slope towards Dover.

The climb from Dover towards Canterbury East is easier, 1 in 105 at Dover then 1 in 132 for most of the way to Shepherdswell and all downhill after that. I saw video of Tornado passing Sheperdswell and it too was slipping.

So, not withstanding the difference in loads, Tornado had the easier climb particularly as it not from a standing start at the foot of the bank.

 

It would appear the RHTT passed by a mere 30 minutes the chuffer set sail....
Can't do more than that really.
Wasn't Tangmere the light footed lump that stalled on Filton Bank the other week?
That loco seems to have a hill allergy....

 

It's a Bulleid 'Light Pacific' - they were designed to be relatively lightweight in comparison with engines of similar power output so that they could be used on some of the more far flung branches of the old Southern Railway. Having said that, Tangmere has also put in some very good hill climbing performances during its preservation main line service.

Clearly something went awry in the planning for this trip and the operational decisions made on the day, which I would expect to be investigated by WCRC and NR to try and reduce risk on future tours.

Regards,

Dan

 

My goodness! 10 pages of bile and spleen. Further to my earlier posting, there is now enough hot air to dry the entire country, not just the rails!

 

Well, you can, it depends if the MPV jetted and sandited or just sandited, given what was behind it, a run of simply sanditing would have been beneficial

 

I'd hope that would be the case, but i have sod all confidence in Network Rail to not buckle pathetically under pressure like they did with the ECML.

Major lesson IMO would be not to stop a light pacific at the bottom of a big hill in Autumn.

 

Depend on the diesel loco of course but on the ones I am familiar with the loco would have easily have mastered the job. No slip , probably little or no sand required, no problemo....

 

Where is the "like" button when you need it!

 

Or any steam loco for that matter.