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The last BR STANDARD GAUGE passenger locomotive?

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by James, Jan 2, 2009.

  1. arthur maunsell

    arthur maunsell Active Member

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    Oh well if its pedantic we are being, Id like to inform Colombine that its BR (LM) not BR(M)
     
  2. Columbine

    Columbine Member

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    I have just looked at the video I mentioned in my last posting (Farewell To Steam B&R 30) and 45110 was indeed carrying the express lamp code.

    If the consensus is to tighten the criteria to be 'Public' timetabled service trains then the honours will I believe go to 45118 which worked the final BR steam passenger service, the evening Preston to Liverpool express, on 3rd August 1968. It too carried the express lamp code.

    Either way the final express passenger service on BR was actually run by a 'mixed traffic' engine running to non-stop express passenger timings, carrying the express lamp code and hauling a limited load train.

    Sorry, but there it is. 45110 survives, 45118 was scrapped.

    Regards
     
  3. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Despite James rather sillily changing the title of this topic and the pedance of others in arguing that the Rheidol locos qualified, it was fairly obvious what he was asking in the original post:
    He wasn't asking what was the last passenger train or, indeed the last express passenger train and we all know that these were hauled by locomotives that were universally regarded as 'Mixed Traffic'.
    He was asking what was the last locomotive generally regarded as a 'passenger locomotive' i.e. one that carried a power classification *P. it is a fairly simple thing as all locos carried this power classification on the cab sides. You will find Castles, Bulleid Pacifics and a host of others with the 'P' classification. You won't find a Britannia or a Black 5 with a 'P' on them. Indeed the Brit's generally just had a simple '7'. I thought it was a simple question and had a simple answer! My contention that 45562 was the last still stands and nobody has, nor can, come up with a true contender.
     
  4. arthur maunsell

    arthur maunsell Active Member

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    so there....
     
  5. Talyllyn07

    Talyllyn07 Member

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    Wow! I didnt realise following STANDARD GAUGE had to be so precise! Give me a day or so when i get back to work and i will tell you the code that was given to the Rheidol engines! Oh and why dont the Rheidol engines class as proper BR engines?
     
  6. James

    James Part of the furniture

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    [​IMG]
     
  7. Talyllyn07

    Talyllyn07 Member

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    Thats big of you! Tractive effort is similar to that of a small pannier!
     
  8. pete2hogs

    pete2hogs Member

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    Oh come on. You gave a clever-dick answer and now you're upset because people are not taking it seriously.

    The OP made it pretty clear he was talking about passenger engines, and quite apart from anything else the VofR engines were built to handle all types of traffic. The fact that the line was a financial disaster and never got any freight worth noticing doesn't really change that.
     
  9. Alberta 45562

    Alberta 45562 Part of the furniture

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    Hey come on the Vale Of Rheidol painted their locos blue,obviously wishing they had diesels!!
     
  10. Neil_Scott

    Neil_Scott Part of the furniture

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    0F?
     
  11. std tank

    std tank Part of the furniture

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    VoR locos were Unclassified.
     
  12. Columbine

    Columbine Member

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    Ok I'll concede! 45562 was the last star pee. It would be nice though if we could use the combined resources of NP to work out just what 'Alberta' did in its last year of 1967. Anybody agree?

    Regards
     
  13. LMS2968

    LMS2968 Well-Known Member

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    It wouldn't matter: the question was about the last express passenger loco, not what it did. It would remain such if it had spent all 1967 in store. It was the last, and that's it!
     
  14. simon

    simon Resident of Nat Pres

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    Actually it wasn't...the original quote was:

    no mention of express and the word in James's quote is run not in store.

    Still 4 pages of froth ](*,)
     
  15. Columbine

    Columbine Member

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    Further digging into my records has shown that a good many ex-LMS types of loco were re-designated as mixed traffic locos in June 1950; one of these was the Jubilee.

    The attached shows the details, but it doesn't show if the classes shown were ever re-designated back passenger types!

    Perhaps the last express passenger loco in regular service was an MN after all ...

    This could run and run!
     
  16. pete2hogs

    pete2hogs Member

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    From 1963 ABC

    MN's 8P
    WC/BB unrebuilt 7P5F
    WC/BB rebuilt 7P6F
    IOW O2 0P
    Coronation 8P
    Royal Scot and Patriot both 7P (Patriots all 'rebuilts')
    Rebuilt Jub 7P
    _but_ standard Jub 6P5F
    Castle 7P
    A4 8P6F
    K1 5P6F
    Britannia 7P6F

    It seems that the ER always gave a freight rating for passenger engines, but the other regions not necessarily.

    So, if we are talking the question literally and talking pure P rated locos, on a recount the MN's have it.
     
  17. pete2hogs

    pete2hogs Member

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    Belay that.

    Apparently (according to the RCTS Green Guide for LNER locos) BR had TWO classifications for locos - the actual load classification, and the 'statistical' classification. It was the statistical classification that told you the primary intended use of the loco, not the load classification. So A4's, for example, correctly given a load classification of 8P6F in my list above, had a statistical classification of 8P . So, what is needed to resolve the argument in favour of Alberta is to find out what statistical classification it had - it will either be P or MT - and whether it actually hauled anything after the end of steam on the SR.

    Incidentally, it was the statistical classification that distinguished between tender and tank, and so had tender and tank variants, e,g, a V3 was 4MTT. Also, in the statistical one the higher number is used so the K1 is a 6MT even though its only 5P6F in the load classification.

    And I started off thinking this was a simple question #-o
     
  18. THE MELTER

    THE MELTER Member

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    i thought the VoR loco's looked quite fetching in blue with that galic symbol on the sides.
    The melter
     
  19. Alberta 45562

    Alberta 45562 Part of the furniture

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    Noddy!!!!!!
    Noddy!!!!!










    Best program ever,always love it when i got to the VoR,just like noddy!










    *Joking*!!!
     
  20. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    So did I! Now that we are talking about power classifications instead of simply distinguishing between primarily passenger locos and mixed traffic locos, what about the Crabs? 6P5F, they were but you'd never put one on a Birmingham Express or Settle Carlisle Express that normally had a Jubilee! Anything over 50mph and you held on for grim death!

    I suggest that we could use the 1958 Observers Book by H C Casserley as our standard reference. It defines the intended purpose of all the BR locos extant at that time (except the Rheidol ones...) and Casserley didn't usually get things wrong. =D> =D>
     

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