If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

The Loco You'd Love To Put A Match To

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Matt37401, Dec 20, 2014.

  1. W.Williams

    W.Williams Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2015
    Messages:
    639
    Likes Received:
    458
    Occupation:
    Mechanical Engineer
    Location:
    Aberdeen
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    [​IMG]

    49. And in the same location...
     
  2. Victor

    Victor Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2006
    Messages:
    10,026
    Likes Received:
    3,094
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    DEWSBURY West Yorkshire
    Farnleys finest....Bihar and Orissa.
    [​IMG]
     
  3. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2008
    Messages:
    13,485
    Likes Received:
    14,959
    Location:
    21C102

    Oooh, a SE&CR G class. Lovely :)

    Tom
     
    Cartman and paullad1984 like this.
  4. 240P15

    240P15 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2017
    Messages:
    351
    Likes Received:
    319
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Norway
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I would love to see the streamlined "Duchess of Hamilton" under steam!:)

    And also the characteristic Bulleid Q1 for those of us who want something "unforgettable" :D

    regards

    Knut
     
  5. pete2hogs

    pete2hogs Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2007
    Messages:
    587
    Likes Received:
    244
    This ^ . But with the superheater please.
     
  6. ruddingtonrsh56

    ruddingtonrsh56 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2009
    Messages:
    219
    Likes Received:
    309
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Still working on that...
    Location:
    Nottinghamshire
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Well the thing is I believe I remember hearing/reading somewhere that on most preserved railways the locos/superheaters don't get warm enough for the superheater to actually perform its function of increasing steam production while reducing consumption. The only way it would be a worthwhile addition is if the loco were to go mainline (which is highly unlikely) or were constantly being worked at its limit (perhaps somewhere like the NYMR, although I doubt it would be given permission to take a full strength train up the 1 in 49). However, I expect it would be far simpler, cheaper, and less controversial, to add a new superheater, rather than rebuild the boiler properly to saturated condition, so all in all that's probably the better option from a practical and economic point of view. Plus it doesn't bother me at all that the loco didn't get its superheater until LNER days and so strictly speaking it wouldn't be authentic to run in GNR colours. Other large atlantics were built as superheated in GNR days, and it only has a minor effect on the loco's appearance
     
  7. 30854

    30854 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2017
    Messages:
    2,370
    Likes Received:
    2,300
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Brighton&Hove
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    ....... and there's that 'round wheel' idea. Where did that come from? As Hengist Pod rightly pointed out in 'Carry On Cleo', round wheels can tend to roll away.
    http://douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/LOCOLOCO/polygon/polygon.htm
     
    gwalkeriow likes this.
  8. marshall5

    marshall5 Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2010
    Messages:
    930
    Likes Received:
    537
    Location:
    i.o.m
    Superheaters do not "increase steam production" - they increase steam temperature (and dry it out) so increasing the amount of stored energy available. I would agree that on the shorter preserved lines a superheater is of little advantage. The problem with Atlantic 251 is, IIRC, that the current boiler is, for want of a better description 'de-superheated' in that the elements have simply been removed from the flues. As the large flue tubes are still in place the hot combustion gases will take 'the path of least resistance' and pass through the empty superheater flues rather than the firetubes and this will have a severely detrimental effect on the steaming rate. I seem to remember reading, that when it was last steamed in 1951?, that it did not perform well. Perhaps it would be better to leave this one 'stuffed and mounted' - after all it's new-build cousin will soon be out and about.
    Ray.
     
    paullad1984, CH 19, 30854 and 2 others like this.
  9. banburysaint

    banburysaint New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2008
    Messages:
    166
    Likes Received:
    79
    Sterling single number 1 my 4 year old would go potty. Number 1 is Emily from Thomas

    Sent from my PRA-LX1 using Tapatalk
     
  10. fergusmacg

    fergusmacg Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2008
    Messages:
    2,897
    Likes Received:
    1,226
    Occupation:
    Design Engineer
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Although with a boiler last steamed in 1951 it would be unlikely that the elements are fit for further service, so they would have to be replaced along with the tubes and flues themselves - if it's worth it when there is a new build getting ever closer is another mater.
     
  11. Allegheny

    Allegheny Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2015
    Messages:
    229
    Likes Received:
    85
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    As the temperature of the steam increases in the superheater, it expands. In terms of the volume of steam produced, a quantity of heat added to the superheater creates a greater increase in the volume of steam, compared with the same quantity of heat added during evaporation.
     
  12. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    8,389
    Likes Received:
    2,740
    Occupation:
    Gentleman of leisure, nowadays
    Location:
    Near Leeds
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    It doesn't (and didn't) have any elements; one of the reasons it did not steam.
     
  13. fergusmacg

    fergusmacg Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2008
    Messages:
    2,897
    Likes Received:
    1,226
    Occupation:
    Design Engineer
    Location:
    Cumbria
    Sorry, I didn't make myself clear, the point I was making was even if it still had its old elements those would still be unfit for further use so this is not a 'problem' to prevent a return to steam as the cost of the new elements would still be required.
     
  14. 2392

    2392 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2010
    Messages:
    617
    Likes Received:
    220
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Felling on Tyne
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    It wasn't just the Super-heater elements that were removed that effected 251s' steaming. They also removed the header too. Hence when I suggested they restore her to working order, "They'd" need to either fit a pair of none super-heated tubeplates or a new header and elements. Making 251 a none super-heated engine isn't that outrageous, as when first out-shopped she ran with such a boiled. Super-heating being one of the modifications made to the type over the years. Just as they were converted from slide to piston valve cylinders. When restored Doncaster had a spare set of slide valve cylinders which were used in place of the piston valve cylinders.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2018
  15. THE MELTER

    THE MELTER Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2006
    Messages:
    401
    Likes Received:
    43
    Occupation:
    ENGINEER
    Location:
    BLACK COUNTRY
    Hardwick and Cornwall,
    in no particular order,
    oh and the ex IMI 0-4-0 ( a Webb?)
     
  16. Masterbrew

    Masterbrew New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2016
    Messages:
    38
    Likes Received:
    15
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Staplehurst, Kent
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    I have heard that when 251 went into Doncaster works for restoration after its last run, it was taken apart and rebuilt with the best components laying around the stores as there would be no further overhauls of his class. Someone told me that even the frames were replaced. If this is so, it must fail the NRM "original material" criteria as much of what is on it now was not there when it last ran!
     
    2392 and Bluenosejohn like this.
  17. 2392

    2392 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2010
    Messages:
    617
    Likes Received:
    220
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Felling on Tyne
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Indeed I've Ossy [O.S.] Nocks' Book on UK Atlantics. Whilst 990 Henry Oakley was basically withdrawn given a repaint into full G.N. colours' despite having a superheated boiler and retired to the old Queen Street Museum in York. Nock remarks that 251 was more of a "memorial loco" cobbled together from a variety of "spare parts", with little of the original machine surviving. Shades of the Gresley Pacific Grand Parade pre-war. Grand Parade had been involved in the Castle Carey crash [between Edinburgh and Glasgow] and removed to Doncaster works. Where the remains were stripped of what could be reused at one end of the Plant, with the rest scrapped and a completely new loco produced from the "Spares Pool" at the other end of the Plant.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2018
    Bluenosejohn likes this.
  18. clinker

    clinker New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2016
    Messages:
    98
    Likes Received:
    31
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    romford
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    [QUOTE="2392, post: 2033073, member: 8414"

    . Grand Parade had been involved in the Castle Carey crash [between Edinburgh and Glasgow] and removed to Doncaster works. Where the remains were stripped of what could be reused at one end of the Plant, with the rest scrapped and a completely new loco produced from the "Spares Pool" at the other end of the Plant.[/QUOTE]



    I think that you'll find that applies to most 'Re Built' locomotives.
     
    andrewshimmin likes this.
  19. 2392

    2392 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2010
    Messages:
    617
    Likes Received:
    220
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Felling on Tyne
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer


    I think that you'll find that applies to most 'Re Built' locomotives.[/QUOTE]

    So it would apply to 251 as well, considering how little of her was apparently used in the preserved machine.
     
  20. Miff

    Miff Well-Known Member Friend

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2008
    Messages:
    1,720
    Likes Received:
    997
    NRM’s information sheet goes into some detail of 251’s assembly for preservation from available components in 1947; and the poor steaming on a trial trip which led to fitting of dummy superheater headers, to restore some sort of draughting, for the loco’s one and only railtour in 1953.

    It also says the Doncaster philosophy was the identity of a loco is the number on the cabside.
    http://www.nrm.org.uk/~/media/files/nrm/pdf/archiveslists/tech-files/1975-7005.pdf
     
    Jamessquared and 2392 like this.

Share This Page