The Midday Scot 19th March 2016

If the Royal Scot is cancelled, does that mean that the Midday Scot could now be Duchess both ways? Assuming that it still runs.

 

Midday Scot has survived the bonfire at the moment. If CME on 12 March is cancelled, this will be RTC's only trip in March.

As for the cancelled balancing run, as much as I'd like to see it, I doubt 46233 will be allowed to do nearly 450 miles in one day. I suspect that it will either remain in Edinburgh as planned or will be tucked inside the DL on the way back.

 

Do we actually know that it's survived for sure? We've held off booking until the TOC details change as I can't really see the ORR letting WCRC back that soon. Even if they do it will probably be on heavily regulated trains over secondary routes until they are persuaded the "culture" change is happening and will be sustained. Shame the S&C is closed as it would be an ideal route.

 

Similar question posed via Twitter to RTC a couple of days ago has not been publicly responded to
https://twitter.com/railwaytouring/status/702783793191583744

 

Why? a couple or so years ago the Duchess did Crewe to Stirling AND return. About the same mileage. If a path can be found to accommodate the return run then the diesel is unnecessary and stabling in Edinburgh redundant. Savings all round and an enhancement to those customers who have been hanging on in uncertainty.

 

Until something is confirmed, there will always be the sword of Damocles hanging over everything. But as RTC have now cancelled three out of four trips scheduled for March, it remains the best (but not necessarily safest) bet that it will run as planned. I suspect this will actually be a DBS job, as there is very little of the route they haven't covered before by steam traction.

 

I was on that trip, and 46233 came off at Carnforth, if memory serves. Calculating the mileages, that trip in 2009 was 258 Crewe-Stirling and 180 Stirling-Carnforth, making it 438 miles in total.

Man Vic to Edinburgh is 224 miles via Hindley and Wigan, making a 448-mile round trip. As such, it is feasible, but it all depends on pathing and whether the support crew are up for it. However, as it is chalked-up as an 8-hour outward trip, the return might be similar, making the arrival around 23:00.

 

Indeed. not only did it come off at Carnforth but it came on at Carlisle, at least on the ones I did in 2010 and 2012. so cut out the 100 miles between crewe carlisle north bound. Cant seeit doing man-ed-man at all. I did 46229 eus-glc in 1996 which is 400 miles with no turning required and nothing like that seems to be set to be repeated.

 

Yes, I remember 46233 coming on at Carlisle, now. So that's 297.5 miles for that trip.

I'm speculating, but if 46233 has to return south of the border the same day, an alternative scenario would be for it to take the train back as far as Carlisle prior to overnight stabling, and the remainder of the trip is DL- hauled to Man Vic. That would add an extra 101 miles of steam haulage, taking the total to 325 miles, which is very similar to the sort of distances PMR tours cover. This would be a best-case scenario, and the odds are against it. There are other iterations that spring to mind, but if this trip runs to the planned itinerary, then that would be something given the current climate.

 

The trip to Stirling I went on had the Duchess on from the start. And unassisted. Went down to Crewe to make the most of it. It did come off at Carnforth and we hopped off early nearer home.

More reasons to do it than not.

 

When was it, pretty sure I did both the stirling ones. both times came on at carlisle. came on at crewe a couple of years ago for a one way to polmont. Theyre all unassisted, guess even NR understand that the Coronation is capable of this work

 

Agreed that itll be a minor miracle if it runs as advertised. Questions remain over the loco and DBS I think. So might run but people may find something else on the front.

I have a feeling that getting to ed, sericing and turning 46233 and then heading back might be pushing it a bit. Might get as far south as carlisle I guess.

 

Another point raised on another thread is that 46233 might be attending the ELR gala the previous weekend, and that there is a plan being hatched to get it there. So at the moment, there seems to be a concerted effort to get it up north.

 

If, as WCRC recent statement suggests, they satisfy the ORR in a couple of weeks, this could mean the Prohibitation being lifted w/c 14th March, which may be in a plan. Or could be one that DBS can do?
Cannot see 46233 hauling out, and return, heck of a long day, as we would only get into Edinburgh 3pm, and the quick return by diesel suits me.
However, if steam with WCRC, 46233, could come on and off at Carnforth, if it's re-planned, to reduce the total travel time for the passengers?
I seem to have seen a post that 46233 is at Carnforth anyway.

 

That was one of the other iterations I thought about. We'll see...

 

Yet on 21/09/2011 60163 ran a round trip from Crewe to Glasgow and back in a day - a total of 488 miles IIRC with a crew change at Carlisle. Agreed that DBS resources are in short supply - especially steam-trained train crew - but perhaps for a small number of particular steam charters DBS might be willing to marshall the appropriate resources to allow the tours to operate. The main need at the moment is to resource the planned itinerary of 60103 during its forthcoming season of tours. If reports that WCRC has complained re the operation of 60103 on 25 February is any guide then it indicates that the prohibition is biting and adds further pressure on the management to act and comply with the ORR demands.

 

60103 was an interesting issue, but as none of us are/were party to the reasons behind the objection, we can't really comment on it. Regarding 60163 and 46233, there's also the willingness of the support crew, and ultimately what the passengers are willing to put up with. If a trip was originally marketed as a 488-mile binge, and it gets fully booked, then those passengers probably know what they are letting themselves in for.

 

The A1 seems to get slightly different treatment, most noticeibly when you look at ECML runs with it. Even when Bittern was running with two tenders there seemed no advantage but the A1 gets 8hr(roughly kx-ed timings (as against 13 roughly for other things) so maybe 60163 seen as more reliable than others.

Speaking of which, anyone know where 60163 is at the mo.

 

Why were WCRC allegedly complaining about the running of 60103 on 25th February?