The Midlander -28th june - 6233 non stop

Really? Why do you think this? If this is the case why does the VSOE circular via Guildford/Redhill which always had a 67 on the back,now normally run without?

As has been debated to death on other threads,we can often work out the chances of a train having a box on the back. This will always depend on many factors such as load,requirement for shunting at destination,need to supply ETH and so on.

 

This is not withstanding that the 47 was needed at New St anyway, Bob Meanley has stated on here before the issue with steam in the westbound direction through new street is that it's slightly uphill, and with the 10MPH speed restriction, it would be difficult to coast under the roof as you do in the opposite direction, therefore the 47 probably gave a nudge in and out of the platform in that respect, otherwise the Duchess had enough grunt to haul the lot without assistance, producing some very nice sound effects for those of us in the WCRC MK1 at arounf the 40MPH mark.

Basically, your unlikely to make it to the platform end going westbound without opening the regulator where you really can't.

 

And finally, the link to mine below. It was nice to see the beastie for the first time in a long while - looking forward to seeing her close up on Saturday.

46233 Canters Through Carpenders Park

 

This is a feature of modern enclosed / built over stations. Never again will we see the sights and sounds of a steam worked Euston as I witnessed just on the cusp of diesel traction.

I was in short trousers at the end of p2/3. The anouncer said the following "The hh.mm train from (cant remember) was reported as running 10 minutes late at Tring - very short pause for breath - and is now approaching p?". The train rolled down the hill behind two ex works small tender engines, posibly Ivat 2 or something similar. I have long lost the details but obviously a late substitution for a failed diesel. For the ECS to sidings a scruffy loco of similar size, the station pilot, coupled on the country end. I dont know what conversation occured between the crews but from their performance they were working the empties out in style. The tip given crows exchanged they went for it Full regulator full gear, vertical exhausts pounding the old high glass roof, the trio lifted the train up the bank in a spectacular of steam sound and style. Oh to be back there with even just a mobile phone. The aceleration matching the electrics to Watford. I cant imagine how many alarms would be set off should even one Ivat bank a train out of the current Euston in similar style

 

Sorted out my pics from the tour at last, being nearer the front helped beat the majority of the "rugby scrum" at New St and Euston: http://daviddepperphotography.zenfolio.com/p259952455#h104c5f85

 

Several issues here chaps, so we'll deal with the diesel first. The job was booked to have a west Coast vac brake diesel turn up at Euston to get the train out of there as NR seem to have an aversion to propelling trains all the way from Euston to Southall. Very late in the day WCR declared that they did not have a VB 47 available, so we had no option but to take ours. We do not do these sort of things lightly as it is extra wear and tear on the engine, extra fuel, more men to pay for, so can anyone see a logical reason why we should just stick it on the back for fun? Incidentally for the speculators, we reckon that the trailing load was about equal to 17 LMS coaches which of course were somewhat lighter than mark ones and twos. Given that the diesel actually did nothing beyond Birmingham, those complaining about the diesel have completely missed the point that it gave a very rare opportunity to witness a classic Duchess heavy haulage feat on home territory. It has been 50 years since a Duchess ran a train from New Street to Euston , in fact it has been 50 years since a Duchess worked a train into New Street. When was the last time a Duchess took a train into Euston, and when was the last time a Duchess (or for that matter anything else) hauled a train non stop from New Street to Euston? Given that the diesel was a load for most of its outing, and the circumstances of its presence, I really do think that the anti diesel paranoia of some completely blinds them to what they have actually witnessed. If you are in doubt just read some of John Powell's writings on the West Coast of the 50's particularly once electrification broke out. The performances were often abysmal, with loads of late running, and you would have been fortunate beyond belief to encounter something of the likes of Saturday's run with 6233 and the load it had. Unfortunately there are some in this movement who do not have the faintest inkling that these loco's are repeatedly putting up the performance of their lives, but I guess ignorance is bliss.

With regard to working into New Street, whilst there has been one piece of irresponsibility working northbound unassisted through the station, the fact of the matter is that the 10 mph speed limit in the station throat totally condemns you to working the engine to drag the train into the station without rear end assistance. I think that it is highly likely that few of those on here really understand just how much work went into making New Street acceptable to NR and the reputations that hang on not causing problems, but do bear in mind that it is a definite that the first time we set the fire alarms off (undoubtedly leading to a station evacuation) will be the last time that steam goes into New Street. That is why the diesel assisted into New Street, and other than the usual diesel haze from Voyagers, the station was clear as a bell. Similarly New Street North tunnel always had something of a reputation for being troublesome in steam days and it is not a lot better now. Modern New Street is not the place for demonstrating a wonderful prowess in taking 10 minutes to clear the tunnel without once slipping, bearing in mind that you are doing 10mph for a considerable distance onto the gradient inside the tunnel before the last of the 12 vehicles clears the speed limit in the station throat. Neither is the tunnel a place which you should fill wfull of smoke and steam causing signal sighting difficulties for drivers approaching from the North. It is an enormous privilege to be trusted to take steam into New Street, hopefully most will recall that not very long ago it was considered to be forever an unachievable dream, sadly it seems all too apparent that the nay sayers really don't have a clue about what it takes to make it happen. Make the most of it chaps while it is still there.

Finally there were a number of comments about the planning of this job by the NR planners at Milton Keynes. Anybody care to admit they got it wrong and that Nick Collins' team, and in particular Gareth Roberts, did a great job in finding the path northbound out of New Street. Even the full time trains played their part and turned up on cue.

Regards
Bob

PS

 

Actual Reality vs the ramblings of the terminally confused.
Always a refreshing change.

 

Mr sarcastic strikes again! Just can't resist. Always putting people down. They must be really bored with life to keep doing this.

 

Please don't take this as nitpicking, but I am wondering about one thing in Bob's otherwise very clear and helpful (as usual) posting. According to the original plan, with a WCR diesel available to take the train out of, and back into, Euston, thus avoiding the extra load for most of the time, what would have happened at New Street? Would Tyseley's own diesel have been uncoupled at the platform, have banked the train out of the station and through the tunnel and then dropped off?

 

Just saying it like it is. There's always a reason why stuff happens or doesn't.
Just nice to read actual facts rather than the usual 'NR are the antichrist' 'box on the back to upset the non travellers' utter drivel that some seem to feel the need to post about every tour.

 

Max load for a Duchess on the Lancastrian ,Manchester to Euston was 510 tons (15 coaches ), booked time ,Rugby(stop ) to Euston 80 min ,via Weedon of course. Ivatt and BR class 2 ,2-6-0s only appearing right at the end of steam on ECS workings at Euston. L M S 2-6-2 Ts doing the honours for 20 years or more ,the first 40001 being a Willesden engine for some years. L M S 8Fs were employed lifting the heavy overnight sleepers out.

 

To add to that (continuing the sub-thread): as I remember it was often a Jinty that took the ECS into Euston and banked the train out, and likewise took out the ECS from arriving trains. Anyway usually not a station pilot as suggested above, because ECS movements were usually to and from the Stonebridge Park carriage sidings and washing plant.

 

Do you remember the gravity ECS moves for what l assume were the Bletchly locals, stored during the day on a siding on the bank.?

 

Bob Meanley.....Brilliant write-up.....we all know you love a Duchess...and WHY NOT; beautiful engine....Pete

 

Well said that man!

 

I am afraid I do not entirely agree. When there have been grumbles in the past about similar issues, I have spent many hours trying to explain to groups of passengers on the train the reasoning for such events. It seems that my explanations, no matter how honest, seem to do little to stem the unrest onboard….and consequently on NatPres also…sometimes from the train whilst I am talking. If someone is determined to be upset by events, there is limited opportunity to change their mind. On this occasion, the length of the journey left little time to talk to the passengers, unfortunately. I have found that trying to give long and detailed explanations over the speakers is not ideal – maybe I need to practice a bit more – “Please Nooooo!” I hear you cry…

There was no southbound departure available without being looped on several occasions, hence the non-stop would be decidedly “stoppy”. NR did an inspired job of pathing the non-stop utilizing a northbound departure as an alternative.
If we had a southbound departure, the plan was to detach the 47 in New St, but as it turned out we needed the 47 for the Euston maneuvers anyway so north or south, it was coming with us.

The plan we submit over 3-months ahead of the day is what we advertise in the brochure that is printed up to 6 months ahead of the train. These trains regularly come down to a series of compromises based on the best solution available. We have an extremely good working relationship with both Network Rail and West Coast who, please be assured, are all working to provide the best experience for the passengers possible.

Bottom line is this; we advertised the train as an attempt to run a Duchess without water-stops from Birmingham New Street to London Euston. As far as I can tell, we achieved exactly that!

Cheers!

Ben

 

And you think that's enough to satisfy the regular kneelers at the NP Wailing Wall???
You have much to learn young Ben.....