The next newbuild

With all the news of Tornado building a second and planning a third loco, and rumours of the Beachy Head guys planning their next newbuild, Didcot building every missing class possible and even 6880 have a second loco (although not newbuild). I would find it interesting to see what people think in regards to a "Next" project. This is only for opinions and not from an official Lms Patriot project point of view.

Once 4/5551 is complete should the group look to build a second loco? Restore an Lms Loco? Or Look at building a Shed?

If it was to build a second loco the obvious choices are this.
A. Fowler 2-6-4t. This is a personal favourite and would make a great loco for any preserved line. You could say its an ideal loco with it being powerful enough for even the longest and steeply graded lines. You can have a great livery debate as one even carried Br Green!
B. An original Royal Scot. This would obviously make a great companion for 4/5551 and Being more powerful would be better suited to the mainline. Plus if you were to call it "Royal British Legion" it really would be a Big brother to "The Unknown Warrior".
C. A Fowler 2p. Not the greatest loco and one i dont really see much point in building, although there does seem to be a big fan base with many people often saying to me on the sales stand "build one of those next". They have the appeal of the S&Djr fans out there as well.
D. A restoration project from barry scrap yard condition. If for instance the Binbrook crab came up for sale a project like ours which will have raised enough to build a Patriot could in theory get this engine in steam. Or of course the Jinty at MRC that is a source of spares. Or any others if they ever came available (you may think of others).
E. A restoration of an engine that has steamed before/Part of the NRM ie LMS 2500. If a long term loan could be agreed would this be the route to go down?
F. Creating a Shed for 4/5551 to call its own. Like the PRLCT have done or Beachy Head.

Remembering this is just for fun what do people think?

Cheers Gavin

 

A Midland 'Flatiron' would be nice.

 

Brighton 4-6-4t Remembrance would sit well with Patriot

 

LMS 2500 is already 'in the frame' for a possible overhaul & return to the 'big railway', being suitable for York-Shildon shuttles. Only cash (or rather, a lack of it) is probably the sticking point...

 

I'd go for the Fowler 2 6 4 (or maybe a Stanier 2 Cylinder one).

Alternatively, (and maybe impractically) how about restoring the Midland Compound to running condition?

 

...with some suggestions as to how to keep it from falling off the road!

 

I am not sure that dreaming is terribly productive. If a well organized and determined group decides to attempt a Newbuild project, then we should wish them all the best. Having a pool of Newbuilds is not only inspirational, but in addition keeps skills alive for the future and smaller specialist companies in business.

One observation that I would make, is that the new 'glamour' end of the movement, which has money to advertise, print trade support and sufficient numbers of relatively wealthy supporters is probably going to have a negative effect on less glamorous projects. People will of course support the project which inspires them, but entrants into the Newbuild market should be aware that the financial ability to succeed has recently become much tougher.

 

Fowler 2-6-4 tank would be my choice.

 

Of your list, I would pick either the shed (preferred), or if you have to do a loco, a rebuild of something that's sitting around slowly disintegrating. See below for why I prefer these.

The instant I saw the thread title, my immediate reaction was to think 'This has to reach a tipping point somewhere, and is it soon?' By which I mean that this is starting to feel like a stock market bubble: everyone and their brother is enthusiastic and jumping on the train (pun semi-intended), but if the underlying fundamentals aren't sound, a crash is coming. I don't know if they are sound or not, but I am starting to worry.

Look, don't get me wrong, I'm all for having as many new builds (for a variety of reasons, including the ones gios mentions) as can succeed - but note the caveat.

Noel

 

Could 'adapt' that spares Jinty at the MR to one of these:
http://www.railuk.info/gallery/steam/br_lms/43183.jpg

Hold the crinolines further off the boiler and raise the boiler mountings to compensate for it being smaller, hack a little bit off the frames under the bunker, build a tender and there you go

Or to go along the glamorous and not necessarily practical route, I'd nominate a rebuilt patriot, to compliment 45551 nicely, or restore either 2500 or 6229 on behalf of the NRM

 

Secure and weatherproof indoor storage with a reasonable degree of environmental control may be utterly unglamorous, but in the long term it will be very valuable indeed.

 

How about working towards that 10 year overhaul and raising the cash to complete it. Sorry..... Fowler 2-6-4 or Brighton K mogul.

 

No more half measures; how about something really unsuccessful and useless like "Fowler's Ghost" or Dean's
4-2-4T?

PH

 

The difference with Atlantic House is that the fundraising was done before construction started, rather than after. Raising money for a shed near the end of a project is probably harder, even if useful.

There was some musing along these lines by the Chairman of the Atlantic group in the latest Beachy Head newsletter, the gist of which was you had to answer three questions: Is it useful? Is it buildable? Is it fundable? Given the LMS leanings of the Patriot group, I wouldn't presume to know what the answer to those questions are in an LMS context, though assuming this thread is at least in part whimsical, I'll give another vote for a Brighton "L" class baltic tank!

Tom

 

I think ill let someone else do that loco. There is of course the boiler that was at mangapps farm which fits the bill and of course doesnt need any adjustments.

 

Even better!

 

On a purely hypothetical basis. To answer those questions on a Fowler 2-6-4t. Is it useful? I would imagine most on here would agree it is a useful sized loco and can do the job for any heritage railway in the uk.
Is it buildable. Cylinder patterns exist in Ireland with the jeep. Boiler drawings? Unknown but there is the boiler in Ireland that would be able to be copied. And having a parallel boiler makes it a cheaper build than the stanier version.
Is it fundable? Well from the initial response from here is towards a fowler 2-6-4t on a "just for fun" basis. Weather that would transform into real money i dont know?

 

Are there any LNER 4-4-2's Around?

 

Yes, Beachy Head!

Tom

 

You said it not me.

PH