The next newbuild

It is its suitability for the job it will have to do rather than the machine itself which commends it to me. Such considerations ought to be at the forefront of any "newbuild" project. I fear that often they are not.

PH

 

What are you views on the "knotty coach trust" then? Four wheel non-corridor coaches with low capacity isn't really suitable, especially when there are all those poor MK 1s sitting unloved in sidings that should be restored first... (I'll get a slap in a minute!)

 

Only in your opinion. You remind me of the soldier doing square bashing in a squad of a 1000. He goes "right, left" to the others "left, right" yet considers the other 999 are the ones who are out of step. Ever considered you may possibly be that soldier?

 

Your post illustrates the dilemma facing many railways - what to restore? A vintage rake to give the railway something a bit different to market or yet more high capacity MK.1 vehicles? Either way you'll still have a siding of unrestored vehicles. The heritage railway movement is not perfect and it's still learning and adapting. Paul is a bit of a doom monger but they have been around for years and happily the movement has burgeoned in spite of the predictions to the contrary. The future will bring further challenges and they won't be solved by building nothing bigger than a Class 3. If the passengers don't come then the size of the loco on the front will be irrelevant.

 

I like to think that my previous post showed that heritage and commercialism are not necessarily different entities. The Gresley TTOs have the same seating capacity as the Mk 1s and are fully compatible with them but are far more attractive (ironically, the SVR's most popular set they say) and are shorter and lighter. They are not the solution for everyone though, and to take Paul Hitch's arguments to the extreme, neither would Gresley QuadArts be, for although they are light and have high capacity they are not pleasant for anything other than a very short journey.

As for what to restore, the recent outshopping of a refurbished Gresley by the SVR got extensive press coverage, as will GW 650 before too long, which can only be of benefit to the SVR. When was the last time outshopping of a Mk 1 of any description got such attention?

 

Just goes to show that "one size fits all" does not apply to our movement.

 

Absolutely ; the IoWSR is a paragon for the smaller lines but you wouldn't want to run the NYMR with small 0-6-0Ts and 4-wheel (or even non-corridor) coaching stock.

 

I'm always up for a challenge, though! How about an NYMR Terrier/P Fest?
Talking of small(er) locos, the non-availability of a DMU for post Christmas services means that the NYMR timetabled diesel services will be steam hauled, hopefully using Sapper and three coaches. If you want to sample the NYMR behind an Austerity, (not done since'Twerp' retired) this is your opportunity. Usual caveats as to availability.

 

The recently deceased Mandy Rice-Davis famously remarked in reply to a comment made by a witness "he would say that wouldn't he". My reaction to people associated with big locomotives seeking to justify the use of such large motive power is exactly the same.

PH

 

Oh you are a card and seem to have little idea of what makes the diaspora of preservationists tick or the reasoning behind locomotive choice. We don't have to justify to you or anyone else our choice of locomotive, be it a humble four coupled dock tank, a mighty ten-coupled freight loco or anything in between. I've no idea how old you are but I predict with a degree of confidence that the steam heritage movement will outlast you, it will certainly outlast me. By the way, have you ever owned a loco?

 

Not so much a slap as a blast from a blunderbuss! I have no idea what the NSR stock will be like in terms of accommodation but Victorian four wheelers can be fine. Some are even splendid. Seating for up to fifty with a tare weight of around 11 tons, even with replacement steel underframes, ought to cause people furiously to think. Very few lines have runs of more than a couple of miles between stations so the need for on board catering, lavatories or even corridors is not really there. On "Big Rail" there are services over respectable distances, e.g. Portsmouth to Brighton, which have no on-board sanitation.

Perhaps the best use for Mk. 1 vehicles would be as donor underframes for replicas of the better pre-Grouping compartment stock, such as Midland or N.E.R. clerestories if this were technically feasible. Currently a bogie underframe from another source is being modified for use under the body of a L.C.D.R. bogie brake 3rd.

Compliments of the season (I will put the blunderbuss away!)

Paul H.

 

Firstly, yes I have had a part share, long ago disposed of. Secondly, if you are seeking either financial contributions or subsidised accommodation yes you should be required to justify your choice. Lastly, no-one can predict how long it will be before they drop off the twig or what a future generation, who never knew steam trains in real life, will feel.

PH

 

You must be a barrel of laughs at a big steam gala... Though judging by your previous comments I'm not even sure if you do...

 

I can't see how it's going to be cheaper to new build a Victorian carriage (even with a suitable underframe, which, I would have thought, a MK 1 is not) than restore another MK 1 though. Non-corridor is a lot more difficult to guard/inspect tickets, plus more likely for things to be damaged if no one else can see. Saying you don't need lavatories is ludicrous, even a 20 minute trip a 5 year old for example can suddenly decide 10 minutes in he needs the loo NOW! And I'm reasonably sure that OTC is responsible for 10% of our income on the GWSR, so it's definitely worth it. And we're a mainline anyway so perhaps we can justify it?

 

People give of their time and money quite freely. Your'e either inspired to support a project or you're not and what inspires individuals will not always be the same for any particular loco. We have Bulleid "fundamentalists", those to whom the Bulleid originals are an interesting technical challenge, those who are inspired by the name and others who wanted to get involved with something locally irrespective of locomotive type. None of these people have ever needed the original choice of loco justifying to them. And just how is the accommodation for said loco subsidised? Are you aware of every running agreement between loco owners and their host railways? There are plenty of volunteers currently in the movement who war born well after 1968 so we know that steam can inspire those who never experienced it "for real". Maybe their inspiration comes form seeing it "for real" on heritage railway.

 

Quite right, as the old saying goes "won't somebody please think of the children?!"

 

Indeed not. Far too many rabid gricers.

PH

 

This is what makes some heritage railways look like rural slums. It doesn't go down well with the natives. Perhaps more effort should go into building covered accommodation for the twin objectives of preventing further deterioration and hiding the restoration candidates.

 

And who do you think saved lines, locos, rolling stock etc. from oblivion and continue to support countless appeals as well as volunteering, the Women's Institute?

 

No I had in mind people like the seven or eight clinging to a creaking, swaying lattice signal post at one of the last Longmoor Open Days and running across the track in front of an approaching train. Both incidents were to the understandable amazement of the watching Corporal. We just looked at each other!

PH