If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

The Pride of Swindon 5043 to Carlisle via the S & C -16th October

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by Paul42, Jul 12, 2010.

  1. Swiss Toni

    Swiss Toni Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,905
    Likes Received:
    3,328
    Location:
    Switzshire
    Thanks Ralph, I thought you might like that. :photo:
     
  2. 30910

    30910 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2006
    Messages:
    940
    Likes Received:
    1,009
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Wirral
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    My take on the trip up (and down) the S&C is now up at:-

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjV6e0oQLh4

    after a bit of a false start when I originally used the wrong loco number! I guess Phil Metcalfe is one of the photographers in view at Selside Shaw on the outward leg.

    Good to make a couple of new acquaintances at Birkett Common.

    Now to sit back and enjoy everyone else's videos.

    Chris
     
  3. bob.meanley

    bob.meanley Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2010
    Messages:
    255
    Likes Received:
    770
    I suppose that this is the best that we are going to get. To be fair it's a well considerd collection of words which screen the fact that nowhere does it say "I was wrong", but it is just the sort of stuff that we have come to expect from politicians in Westminster when they are forced to admit that they were wrong! Please tell us that you are not an MP!
     
  4. dp266

    dp266 Member Account Suspended

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2008
    Messages:
    374
    Likes Received:
    0
    Occupation:
    Project Management
    Location:
    County Palatine of Lancaster
    If a generator car instead of a diseasal had been used the matter would not have troubled anyone.
     
  5. Swiss Toni

    Swiss Toni Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,905
    Likes Received:
    3,328
    Location:
    Switzshire
    What do you want, sackcloth and ashes?
     
  6. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005
    Messages:
    9,635
    Likes Received:
    8,303
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alderan !
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    As i think Bob has explained there was concern about Rail conditions caused by leaf fall and forecast rain so a Genny would have been a fat lot of use at providing assistance had it been needed

    On one of the posts on one of the threads is some early speeds which suggest 5043 was holding over 40mph with a load equivalent of 12 to 13 coaches on the latter stages of the long drag. Even more impressive is the effort showed no sign of winding her with Safety valves apparently feathering at both Birkett and Kirkby Stephen . Full credit to Alastair for that level of firing

    Nevermind being pride of Swindon , she is Pride of Tyseley and is probably in the best condition a Castle could ever be in , and also final (?) castle development with Double Chimney and 4 row superheater . Just imagine what Clun will be like when she returns
     
  7. bob.meanley

    bob.meanley Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2010
    Messages:
    255
    Likes Received:
    770
    Bit of lack of fundamental understanding here. Like many other things, the BR power classification system is merely a guide and not a precise tool to determine ultimate power characteristics, as such it is almost as misleading as using tractive effort figures to compare loco's. It is very much like comparing Apples and oranges, both are round and of a similar size but fundamentally different. A Castle has marginally smaller cylinders than a Coronation, but not that much, 1/2 inch on the diameter and 2ins on the stroke, after all a Duchess is its younger cousin. That is about a 14% increase in cylinder volume, and is the same as a King. What differs is the grate area as the GW engines have narrow fireboxes, whereas the Coronation has a wide box, the figures for grate area being 30 sq ft Castle, 50 sq ft Coronation. the fundament of any good steam locomotive is its ability to burn coal and turn it into useful energy, not all did this, some being voracious coal eaters with not much to show for it. So it stands to little more than common sense that a Castle is never going to equal a Duchess in terms of all out cylinder horse power, because the boiler is never going to produce as much steam, and that steam is a higher pressure in a Coronation. However what you can do is to measure how much indicated cylinder horsepower it is producing per sq foot of grate because that is a measure of what the boiler and engine combined are really doing for you. Doing this by taking some recent figures where Dr Rule considered that 5043 had briefly touched 2000 ihp on Shap last year, that works out at 66.6ihp per sq ft of grate, which strangely is exactly the same number as 6234's 3330 ihp with 50 sq ft of grate which it turned out on the famous LMS test run in 1939. A study of various other recent "records" reveals that as a comparison there has been little to compare with this figure, even 60163's of claims of greatness rank at only around 60ihp per sq ft - some 10% below the Castle's figure. It is worth noting that whilst it is too early to confirm it, Mr Notley is predicting that the final 1.5 miles of the climb to Ais Gill on the return yesterday produced a figure considerably in excess of the Shap numbers (after 20 odd miles of climbing from Appleby), so expect the 66.6 ihp per sq ft to go out of the window and be replaced with something in the 70's. I think that this demonstrates quite adequately that size for size, a double chimney Castle is up there with the best of the best, unless someone has a convincing technical argument to the contrary.
    Finally you are wrong about the 7P Jubilees, they were in a completely different league to a Black 5, as was a standard 5X on a good day, and you would expect this with a boiler that good running at 250 psi. I am told by those who ran them that there was little difference to a Scot, and I have heard numerous comments over the years that they rode better than the Scots, but I suspect that you cannot claim that this is entirely objective
     
  8. bob.meanley

    bob.meanley Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2010
    Messages:
    255
    Likes Received:
    770
    Yes I think some of us would very much like to see that. It would be adequate atonement for all of the predictions of doom.

    By the way, who was the lucky guy that was holding the bets for the sweepstake on where it was going to run out of steam?
     
  9. Stu in Torbay

    Stu in Torbay Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2005
    Messages:
    2,829
    Likes Received:
    42
    Occupation:
    GPS Navigation Engineer
    Location:
    Goodrington Bank, Paignton
    Oh there will be much babbling and wringing of hands over this run, but not a single soul can deny the fact a Great Western Castle is a top-draw piece of Engineering. 5043 I think is done 'proving' itself (did it ever really have to?), what follows in the future may include a few 'never ceases to amaze' moments, but in the main it will surely be able demonstration of locomotive excellence. So for the doubters (and I have done it) just remember; Mainline steam of this caliber is a privilege to witness, and long may it reign.
     
  10. Steve from GWR

    Steve from GWR Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2010
    Messages:
    1,292
    Likes Received:
    14
    Without wishing to muddy the thread, if there were an award for best ever ex-Barry restoration, 5043 would get my vote. The Pride of Tyseley, indeed.
     
  11. Matt35027

    Matt35027 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2009
    Messages:
    1,122
    Likes Received:
    143
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Builder
    Location:
    Near 74D
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Not bad for a loco bought for spares eh?
     
  12. royals pete

    royals pete Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2008
    Messages:
    766
    Likes Received:
    50
    Location:
    Woodley nr Reading
    I think she keeps proving herself time and again when she is allowed to. Look back to 17 April 2010 ; UP Bristolian ; non stop so ahead of time she caught most would be viewers out anywhere East of Swindon !!! Rolled back time and I have no doubts she can answer any question put to her. (as long as the coal is ok!)
     
  13. Paul42

    Paul42 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2006
    Messages:
    5,922
    Likes Received:
    3,829
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    East Grinstead
    A Great trip, the best of the 4 trips I had been on over the S & C.
    Thanks to Vintage Trains (including the support Crew, and stewards), West Coast,the Drivers and the firemen. A Selection of my photo's can be found at http://paul-simpson.fotopic.net/c1907678.html
     
  14. Jontie

    Jontie New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2010
    Messages:
    65
    Likes Received:
    100
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    East Lancs
    Stuart, see your pm's.
     
  15. bob.meanley

    bob.meanley Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2010
    Messages:
    255
    Likes Received:
    770
    Thanks for the comments Martin, and I am sure that Alastair will be appreciative of them, but credit should also be given to Peter Walker for the northbound run where he handled it superbly on some dodgy rail surfaces despite this being his first time on a Castle, and to Mick Kelly for his handling of it on the south bound run, which is turning out to be a bit of a talking point with the performance crowd. Mick did have the advantage of having had the engine once before! As many have said before the job is all about teamwork.
     
  16. Penricecastle

    Penricecastle Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2007
    Messages:
    297
    Likes Received:
    136
    By the name that I use here, "Penricecastle", I guess you can tell that I love Castles. I am unable to travel on main line steam and rarely see or photograph it, due to work commitments. I have been looking forward to reading the analysis of this trip and seeing the videos that would inevitably appear, for months. We all knew that 5043 would perform brilliantly and, together with the Shap trip, it has proved once and for all that Western locos can handle the Northern climbs.

    Huge congratulations to Bob and his team at Tyseley and everyone else concerned.
     
  17. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2005
    Messages:
    35,446
    Likes Received:
    9,144
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired-ish, Part time rail tour steward.
    Location:
    Northwich
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Due to the many comments I have already had, I will be making a DVD of the onboard footage from the return run. As I was at the back on the way out we could only on a few occassions faintly hear the exhaust so this footage will not be included. Please PM me your address if you are interested, it will be free but if you wish to make a donation to Help the Heroes it would be appreciated.
     
  18. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2005
    Messages:
    9,635
    Likes Received:
    8,303
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Alderan !
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    Ralph

    watched the footage earlier , part 3 Mallerstang to Ais Gill , just a wonderful soundtrack and i'm sure she is accelerating the load up the latter stages of the climb . PM sent
     
  19. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2005
    Messages:
    35,446
    Likes Received:
    9,144
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired-ish, Part time rail tour steward.
    Location:
    Northwich
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I've only just got round to watching Saturdays vids and this a winner, the first and last clips more than make up for the loss of sound in the middle one.
     
  20. buseng

    buseng Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2005
    Messages:
    4,799
    Likes Received:
    349
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Tilehurst, Reading, Berks.
    Just a quick comparison. In the latest Steam Railway on page 65 in the gallery section there is a picture of Black Five 44932 approaching Ais Gill summit (not sure which direction) with 12 on with no diesel on the back. Surely if a class 5 can travel the S&C unassisted with 12 on, I am sure a Castle (class 7) with 10 on could. I know it has been stated the diesel did not do any assisting, but it still had a presence on the train unlike 44932's train.
     

Share This Page