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The Salopian Express 22/03/16

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by 7P6F, Feb 27, 2017.

  1. 84H

    84H New Member

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    Here's my effort of Scots Guardsman passing through Yorton Station, about 10 mins down, on the return from Shrewsbury. Really pleased to be able to see her along with my dad, who can remember seeing 6115 at Salop in LMS days. IMG_1656.JPG
     
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  2. staffordian

    staffordian Well-Known Member

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    Here's my effort, hurrying through Nantwich on the return leg, running about six minutes late. The trademark LMS leaky cylinder drain cock puts in an appearance..

     
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  3. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    Exit from Crewe. A nice study in steam, wires and drain cocks!

    P1080805A.jpg
     
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  4. Oswald T Wistle

    Oswald T Wistle Well-Known Member Friend

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    The Salopian 22 March 2017 – 46115 Scots Guardsman hauling 11+POB

    As Mrs W is not a morning person and is “fed-up with keep going to Carlisle”, I thought I’d found a winner; 11am from Preston and to Shrewsbury (in the opposite direction and somewhere where we last visited 35 years ago). But alas no! I left alone, with instructions to bring back some Shrewsbury biscuits.

    I caught the service train from Blackburn (£2 on car park cw £12 at Preston) and arrived at the same time as the train from Dumfries. It was raining heavily. The diesels were detached (including the 37 on the rear – well done WCRC) and as I boarded I spotted Big Al (I think) taking details of the coaches. I was in the middle of coach H, 3½ coaches from SG.

    Mick Kelly took us off 8L on a very easy schedule to Wigan, we ambled along the slow line 28 at Leyland and slowed to 20 just beyond – we were waiting for the Edinburgh-Euston to overtake us before the four track section ends at Balshaw Lane. Euxton Jn was passed at 25, then SG was opened up and by Euxton Balshaw Lane (1¼ miles of 1/936f) we were up to 46. Plenty of good noises from the front and we topped the summit at Coppull at 48. A quick sprint (max 68) down to Wigan NW (arr 2L, dep 3L). We were up to 56 by Bamfurlong Jn, Golborne Jn (69) and Winwick Jn (78) before slowing through Warrington BQ (2L). We were back up to 51 before slowing for Runcorn East (4L), then into Sutton Tunnel and a quick sprint into the mid-60s through Frodsham before coming to our first water stop in Helsby (RT); it was no longer raining.

    We left Helsby 4L and passed Mickle Trafford Jn at 52 (5L) and topped the 1/132r at 43 then downhill into Chester station where the 2 min stop was abandoned and we passed through 1L at 20. Then out via West and South Jns and, for me, a new section behind steam. A splendid view of the racecourse then on to Saltney Jn (47) and on towards Rossett with a max of 62 with which to attack Gresford Bank (around 4 miles of 1/82½). The sound of the exhaust was tremendous as Mick Kelly encouraged SG onwards and upwards, cinders were coming in through the, only slightly open, toplight. We had a minimum of 32 near the top of the climb which quickly recovered to 36 at the summit. We were up to 49 through Wrexham and 1L, speed built downhill as we crossed the Dee Viaduct and then we braked up the hill through Chirk and were down to 20 across Chirk Viaduct with its splendid view of the canal aqueduct. By the crossing just beyond the viaduct speed had fallen to 17 but SG growled and dragged the train up the 1/143r to 25 at the summit. We passed through Gobowen at 54 but 5L. There then followed a stretch of good fast running, in sunshine, but all too soon we braked and made our way slowly into Shrewsbury where we stopped 4L.

    When I left the station it was dull but not raining and I strolled to the local Wetherspoons, Mongomery’s Tower for lunch (Wednesday - Chicken Club Day). Refreshed, I was a man with a mission – Mrs W’s Shrewsbury biscuits. I spent 1½ hours wandering round in light drizzle searching for a shop, in Shrewsbury, that sold Shrewsbury biscuits. Could I find one, could I ****! I made my way back to the station to text Mrs W the sad tidings (time and distance are good allies).

    It was always going to be a tough ask to get the ECS into the platform and boarded in the allotted time. As it was, it was after the departure time when the ECS was propelled into the platform. With Mick Kelly still in charge, we departed 8L. A short downhill section is followed by about 3 miles of 1/120ishr, we reached the summit at 32. There followed a good fast run; Yorton 57 (9L), Wem 70 (8L), Prees 66 (8L), Whitchurch 64 (7L) followed shortly by a TSR, then Wrenbury 70 (7L) and Nantwich 58 (7L). We were 2L at Gresty Lane and looking good for RT into Crewe but were stopped for 2½mins at Crewe S, finally stopping in pl 12 (2L) for our final watering of the day.

    Ron Smith took charge from Crewe and we were off 1E. Ron carried on where Mick Kelly had left off and another fast section; Winsford 63 (RT), Hartford 69 (1E), Acton Bridge 72 (1E), Acton Grange Jn 62 (2E), Warrington BQ 72 (2E), Winwick Jn 66 (3E) and Golborne Jn 42 (4E) as we switched to the slow and our planned stop at Springs Branch Jn. It was now dark and raining. We had to wait for 3 northbound trains and another off the Liverpool line before we could enter Wigan NW. We were away 5L and stopped in Wigan NW 6L. We had a planned 10 min stop but this was reduced to 4 and we left RT. Although on the fast line speed was generally low 60s; 65 at Leyland and 2L, this was reduced to 1L but with the usual slow approach into Preston we finally stopped 5L (still raining).

    I just missed my earlier connection to Blackburn, but got the next 20 mins later and was home for 8.50, whereupon the rain stopped for the first time in 24 hours.

    A good day out, pure steam, without problems, that ran to time (until I left – then was delayed leaving Preston). An interesting destination, the route is not “The Hanging Gardens of Babylon”, but perfectly fine and enough going on for the steam enthusiast. Thanks to WCRC for a professionally arranged and operated tour. 46115 is a favourite of mine, so each trip before its mainline ticket expires is a bonus. I described the trip to Mrs W and it’s a definite maybe for next year, but she would prefer it after the clocks have gone forward and with good weather – Mr Shuttleworth, you have been warned.

    I went to Asda this morning and bought a packet of Currant Shrewsburys (made in Lancashire! – eh?). Mrs W smiled. She will not be smiling when she returns home and finds out that I let the stew boil dry. Now where can I hide?
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2017
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  5. LMarsh1987

    LMarsh1987 Part of the furniture Friend

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    The Scot made it all look rather easy ! Went well up Battlefield Bank on the return, also 45699 sounded very well on Tuesday. A great few days for mainline steam and the weekend should follow in the same vain, although I'll be witnessing proceedings from the train instead.
     
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  6. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    I think it's fair to say that Scots Guardsman acquitted itself very well yesterday and dare I suggest made the performance of the Earl seem rather ordinary.

    Before the GW fraternity shout at me it's worth mentioning first of all that SG had a rather challenging 12 for 470 tons gross on the drawbar that is much more than 5043 takes around. Our time from Chester to Wrexham was a shade under 16 minutes and had we stopped at Chester, rather than creep through at around 20, my guess is that we would have gone over the top in a similar time (but with a heavier load). As for the overall running time from Chester to Shrewsbury, that was 57 min 25 sec, pass to stop or an estimated 59 min start to stop. That's a tad slower but we did have the severe restriction over Chirk Viaduct.

    So honours go to the Scot I would suggest.
     
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  7. Where's Mazeppa?

    Where's Mazeppa? Member

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    By comparison with the Earl's efforts last October, given the greater load yesterday, and looking at the rounded times on RTT, looks like SG may have just about shaded it over this section, even allowing for the low-speed pass of Chester station. "Cinders coming in through the slightly open toplight" was certainly a feature common to both runs up Gresford. Marvellous. The very essence of unassisted steam.

    Luckily, 5043 gets another go at the end of September, but meanwhile, many thanks for a thoroughly absorbing account of the day.

    Edit : hadn't noticed Big Al's post while I was compiling and submitting this, and apologies for the unintended duplication, but (sad to say) I think we are more or less saying the same thing by way of an objective verdict.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2017
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  8. ragl

    ragl Well-Known Member

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    An excellent and very entertaining travelogue of the trip Mr. W, many thanks as usual, I always look forward to your post-trip synopsis.

    Sorry to hear about your fail with the Shrewsbury Biscuits, the only place that I have found them is on the W.I. stall in the Market Hall, not sure if the Good Ladies are still there tho'.

    Just one small whingette, the canal crosses the valley on an aqueduct.........

    Many thanks.

    Cheers,

    Alan
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2017
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  9. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    A couple of notes regarding the run back to Dumfries, owing to a technical problem with the 37, it and the 47 had not arrived in Preston when we got there, they had been delayed but were en route, so our departure was some 25 minutes late. It then got worse, on arrival at Carlisle we were informed of a 'points failure' problem at Gretna Junction and we were 4th in the queue, eventually moving off 55 late.
    One passenger complained to me that had we not had the delay as Preston we would probably have not got caught by this problem. A quick look at RTT and I was able to show him that the first train to be caught by it would have been infront of us had we been on time so we would just have sat there so much longer.
     
  10. Bulleid Pacific

    Bulleid Pacific Part of the furniture

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    46115 continues to underpin it's reputation as a hill climber...
     
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  11. Oswald T Wistle

    Oswald T Wistle Well-Known Member Friend

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    Thanks for your kind remarks. I tried the market hall with no luck. Still it's a thing of the past, water under the bridge - or across the aqueduct! I was attempting to multitask; type and in charge of the stew - a major failure with one and a smaller error with the other (there may well be more). It is an error that would disappoint Mrs Ferguson who at various times taught me English and Latin - no wriggle room there!

    Regards,
     
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  12. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    Is there enough info available for someone to work out the estimated draw bar HP on Gresford bank?
     
  13. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Just out of interest how heavily was it loaded, I only ask as it seemed to be popping up as an advert on Facebook rather a lot in the past few weeks which suggested that WCRC were struggling to shift seats??
     
  14. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    The train was full.
     
  15. GWR4707

    GWR4707 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Good stuff - I was getting a bit irritated as it popped up as a promoted post every time I went on Facebook!
     
  16. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    The software I use gives me 1670 for the last two miles to the summit. E&OE of course!
     
  17. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    Thanks Alan, regarding the loading, there were 4 coaches dining, 3 1st class and in standard, the buffet, one TSO and the brake. There were the odd empty seat here and there due to no shows. Half a dozen potd at Preston filled the last compartment in the brake which was supposed to be staff.....:(
     
  18. 1020 Shireman

    1020 Shireman Part of the furniture Friend

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    The other factor that has to be considered in comparing the performance is that as well as a standing start, the Castle had been standing in the sidings at Chester for well over 2 hours and there's barely 6 miles to the foot of Gresford to get the fire right. Great run by the Scot. Congrats to Carnforth for the superb performances of both Galatea and SG of late.
     
  19. Where's Mazeppa?

    Where's Mazeppa? Member

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    Hmmm. I think I may have got it slightly wrong in my original post #47. Stung by the very suggestion that anything the Earl ever achieved could ever be described as “rather ordinary” (“ordinary” indeed!!!!!!) and in the light of 1020 Shireman’s comments about the context of the Earl’s performance, I decided to re-read Mike Hedderly’s account of the October run in the January issue of Steam Railway ((SR462).

    Edhp calculations quoted in his write up pitched the Earl’s overall climb of Gresford (from Rossett) at an average of 1510 (ihp1750) and for the last mile at 1660 edhp (ihp 1870), surmounting Gresford at 40 mph, which approximates to Big Al’s own calculation of SG’s peak output of 1670 edhp on Wednesday’s run.

    Looking at the log of the run, it is also fair to point out that the Earl encountered signal checks that were quite possibly more constraining than that encountered by SG at Chirk – specifically to 24mph on the approach to Wrexham General, and again a similar check at Gobowen.

    The net Chester-Shrewsbury time quoted in Mike Hedderly’s feature was in fact 52.5 minutes – considerably less than the estimate for an equivalent start-to-stop time of 59 minutes quoted by Big Al for Wenesday's run.

    So under the circumstances I think the most gracious thing to conclude would be at the very least an “honours even” verdict. That said, I wouldn’t want to be seen as part of a “shouting GWR fraternity” and I certainly wouldn’t want to deprecate what was clearly a very strong performance by SG on Wednesday.

    “Other verdicts are available” as they say, but in the interests of balance………….
     
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  20. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    I definitely wouldn't wish to start a Scot v Castle argument. On the face of it they are fairly similar locomotives with a tractive effort of around 32/33000 lb. I don't have the SR log in front of me but the key times for the Scot from passing Chester were:
    Balderton - 5.54
    Wrexham - 15.53
    Ruabon - 22.31
    Chirk Viaduct - 27.56 (tsr)
    Gobowen - 33.35
    Old Woods - 47.19 (min of 49)
    Coton Hill North - 53.23 (sigs and slowly managed approach)
    Shrewsbury - 57.25.

    That should allow you to put one against the other. My equiv of 59 start to stop is quite hard on the Scot. As for the tsr and checked Shrewsbury approach, I reckon that accounts for about 4 min against WTT. So a net start to stop of 55, I estimate, that is indeed slower than Mike's 52.5 net. Let's just leave that difference hanging in the air as something to do with the fact that the Scot was dragging around two more coaches! So honours even.
     
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