The Steam Ban around York

Okay, time to put a few things to bed here!

Firstly, it's unlikely that DB Schenker Rail UK would ever do something that they didn't think would make a financial return so, although it's a small part of their overall business, I don't think that it's done for railway marketing/PR reasons (apart from the occasional steam involvement with the Royal Train anyway). They didn't take on the SD work a couple of years ago as a fun hobby - it turned out to be rather a headache for the company and, I think it's safe to say, didn't really give them any positive PR as things turned out.

With regard to air brakes, things will get better, most of the rest of the world has been managing quite well for the past century. Vacuum brakes will not be around forever on the mainline. From a brake handling point of view, I suspect that most drivers would prefer to be using air rather than vacuum when running at 75mph on the mainline.

As things stand, the DBS share of the market is minimal because they've chosen not to over-commit following the resourcing issues of 2012/13. Can you imagine the criticism they would be receiving here if they had chosen to carry on as before. That commitment may well change, but it will probably do so incrementally. As has already been alluded to by Sheff, they have undertaken to run more trains next year with their regular partners.

Finally, it is worth bearing in mind that it is unlikely that any other operator would have been able to work with its industry partners in order to run three 90mph steam runs last year. If we are to see more of that then it'll probably be as a result of that partnership.

 

All that being said doesn't answer the points I made however, what if I'm a tour promotor and I want to take a Hall to Penzance, are DBS willing (let alone capable) of doing that ?, no need to quote pathing/gauging as this is an example.

I think this idea that vac braking won't be allowed soon is a myth, we had similar thoughts over 10 years ago now but it's still with us, steam locomotives themselves and even traditional buffers and drawgear are seeing rarer use on NR as time goes on, so be careful what you wish for if you think vac braking can be done away with because few use it.

90MPH will always be the exception than the rule if allowed more frequently, how many loco's are capable of it mile after mile without breaking sweat ?, 90MPH not being suitable for vac braking is a bit of a moot point if you can only hit 90 on a long flat or downhill section, not every tour is an A4 on load less than 12 coaches on the ECML remember.

DBS have their place in the market, but I can't see them being a major player on the steam scene again.

 

While discussing DBS, there is a rumour emerging on WNXX that DBS's UK operations may have been purchased by Colas, be interesting to see where that leaves things if true.

 

I've been on the case of this rumour since before it appeared there and the CEO is denying it.

Normal service continues..

 

In the same way Cadbury's CEO denied they'd get taken over by Kraft? However, I'm sure the new-ish Competition and Markets Authority would be very interested if true.

 

It need not be limited to Tornado, but could be selected class 7 or 8 engines on selected routes and maybe not just for one off runs, but in circumstances where time recovery and pathing requires it

Don

 

Totally agree with you Don the last part happened quite regularly with BR.
I cannot understand why people go on about wear and tear if these big engines go faster then, these same people condone flogging an engine uphill with a heavy load.
Both circumstances generate heat but a properly functioning lubrication system should look after that.
For example I would imagine a class 8 approaching Tebay at 90mph would make short work of Shap.

Cheers Dave

 

Was there not some talk a few years ago about allowing Black 5s to run at 75mph & did Ian Riley say no thanks, 60mph is perfectly fine? Or words to that effect & as you suggest, he's best placed to know the scale of maintenance required.

 

As O.S. Nock said in his book 'Main Lines Across the Border'........

Shap never ceased to be a challenge to the skill of the enginemen. It was never treated lightly; it was charged pell-mell, and the five miles of almost level road through the gorge of the river Lune were taken as an opportunity to pile on speed after the long ascent to Grayrigg.

 

Not the same sized trains these days by any means 11 or 12 the norm not 15 16 big difference.

Cheers Dave

 

But there IS a difference in firemen's competence which affects the steam generation. some firemen can't get up Goathland Bank without difficulty whilst others have no problem keeping the fire up. Transfer that lack of experience - mainly from the irregularity of their involvement - and there can be little difference between a Duchess in 1960 with 16 on and a Jubilee in 2014 with 11 on.

In 1960 a Carlisle fireman (daily) fired a Duchess on the 299 mile run from Carlisle to Euston as part of his regular duty; in the early 1960s a Saltley fireman worked a Washwood Heath - S&C - Carlisle duty throughout yet by 1990 a pair of firemen were sometimes used on the 72 miles between Settle Jn and Carlisle.

 

I understand this Fred the Carlisles were pretty onerous with a black 5 but the duchesses had coal pushers.
I think you will find that most of the firemen are on top of the job but take your point about firemen in the 90's.
I was on one such trip from Swansea to Gloucester with 70000 at the Newport stop the driver was given the instruction to go flat out to Gloucester as the Severn Tunnel was under engineers possession.
We all thought we were in for something spectacular as it had been a good run from Swansea despite leaving 7325 there with a hot box, instead we went slower and slower until we stopped at a green signal outside Gloucester.
Alun Rees lightened the mood somewhat by saying "I thought a green light meant we could go it turned out we were well and truly down the nick and the same fireman had done the same a week or two before with 60009 and a support coach.
I do think the crews have improved tremendously since the early days.

Cheers Dave

 

getting back to steam ban did 60007 run as planned without a diesel?
5Z68 1450 York N.R.M. to Carnforth Steamtown
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U53301/2014/10/15/advanced

 

Yes

 

I was at Newport that day and it almost ended in disaster as I recall. With a lengthy stop over, I arrived at the front and there was no one on the footplate, not even a support crew member. Several minutes passed and still no sign of anyone. It seems they were all, including the mainline crew, in the support coach having a cuppa. All of a sudden, the loco inspector appeared from somewhere, jumped on the footplate and yelled out an expletive which cannot be repeated here expect to say it back with f and ended with k. It seems there was no water showing in the glass with the risk of severe damage if the crown of the firebox is exposed. Injectors on and the boiler started to fill. But the pressure was down at around 150lbs as I recall. Minutes afterwards, the crew turned up and got a mighty bollocking and quite rightly so. Soon after the train got the road, I jumped in the second coach with head out of window and not surprisingly, the Brit struggled to Gloucester and indeed, again from memory, I seem to think she had to stop for a blow up.

A sad end to what had started as a great double headed bash to Swansea. One can only begin to imagine what might have happened if the inspector did not turn up when he did.

 

Yes - made a nice sight at Copmanthorpe working Loco + POB !

 

According to the latest Heritage Railway magazine " A 30 page report of a hearing held by the Access Dispute Commitee ........ concluded " There was sufficient grounds to support Network Rail's action to suspend West Coast Railways from operating steam-driven equipment on the LNER route"