The Ultimate Livery Debate...

46229 carried the BR(M) maroon livery.

 

So – my question is: Is there any loco which doesn’t look better in Midland Red?!?

For LMS locos, it goes without saying they look best in red. Nevertheless, I will say it… Recent livery changes have proved that red is best on, amongst others:

Duchesses: https://www.flickr.com/photos/taffytank/8027444365/ (or even http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:6229_DUCHESS_OF_HAMILTON_National_Railway_Museum_(11).jpg)

Jubilees – well Galatea and Leander have shown red is best: https://www.flickr.com/photos/allan5819/10461332176/

Royal Scots (all right thinking people think they are best in red – including Billy Butlin and Alan Bloom - although perhaps a bit more lake and a bit less crimson is preferable): https://www.flickr.com/photos/snottycat/3471122783/

Even 8Fs look great in red (thanks GCR!): http://www.gcrailway.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/8624.jpg

And Ivatts – both tank: http://tomcurtisrailgallery.weebly.com/uploads/6/9/0/3/6903499/41241yardshildonaug1975.jpg

and tender: http://www.train-photos.com/picture/number9959.asp

Now turning to other railways’ locos, thanks to London Transport, we know that GW Panniers look best in red: https://www.flickr.com/photos/stevessteampics/5885171654/

and thanks to Bill Parker, we now know GW Prairies do as well: http://www.davesrailpics.bravehost.com/bluebell/bluebell.htm

We have Harry Potter to thank for confirming that the classic GW 4-6-0 looks best in red: http://steam-locomotives.co.uk/images/Hogwarts Castle (Olton Hall) near Toddington. 23.05.09.jpg

and Hogwarts also gave us this handsome SR entry into the “best in red” league: https://www.flickr.com/photos/johnmightycat/5715099651/

So, now I’ve convinced you that ALL steam locos look best in Midland Red, anyone out there up repainting, say, Tornado, one of the A4s, perhaps a Schools – just to complete the set…?

 

You mean somthing like this http://www.fictitiousliveries.co.uk/photo.php?60163_LMS.jpg

 

This is all very subjective I suppose but railway companies did place more than a little importance on branding and house style, including the colour of the locos and rolling stock. There is no doubt that the LMS Princess Coronation/Duchess/City class locos do look good in maroon livery. This colour, which seems to suit LMS locos very well, is, I'm told, relatively hard wearing but I'm no expert in this field. Having said that it suits LMS locos well, I'm not in favour of an 8F in any colour but black but it's not my money. As for GWR locomotives being in any other colour than various shades of green, except perhaps for BR black in some cases, well, quite frankly, no!

 

Duke of Gloucester ? I think it would be a nice one to try out

 

Taw Valley should steam again within the next couple of years... maybe the Red Livery will return as well

 

Just say no.....

 

I not sure it can,think its somthing to do with copyright. I did rather like it in red though.

 

Not really convinced that all locomotives look good in red; having recently seen 45699 in the metal, I'm not even sure it suits it- LMS maroon/whatever variation on a theme is currently in vogue at the moment, maybe, but not the BR version it currently carries. However, as I'm not paying for its maintenance, I'll happily lump it and use my imagination. I sincerely doubt an original Bulleid would look good in overall red/maroon, though, as it would need more than lining to off-set it. However, the old EWS livery would suit it better.

 

needs a Stanier (or Fowler tender)....

 

I don't like mixing post steam era liveries with steam. I totally understand that there is a place for diesel and electric preservation but I don't want to see the largely much brighter liveries on a railway that tries to recreate the 1950s or before. I think the MNR and NNR work quite complementarily in that respect. NNR coaches are all maroon, carmine and cream or earlier liveries and most of their diesels are green and back dated by the removal of high intensity headlamps etc but they have a diesel gala where fans might ride the line in something from a more modern scene; whereas MNR is largely blue grey and newer (one green 101 and some maroon coaches), their coaching stock is largely mk2s, they run a tourist steam service in the summer to bring in interest and had two cracking steam galas, but their core offering is largely consistent.

 

I can understand why it's not to anyone's taste... but to the post 1968 generation, that is what steam on the mainline looks like.

I remember the days of steam and blue/greys... but also steam and that Pilkington's "special k" set, exhibition train, IC FO set etc etc etc...
Lord Nelson on Blue greys would look very normal to many... as would 5690, 4771, 4498, 4472, 5407, 5305 indeed steam in BR livery was very little on the mainline 25 years ago....
and many preserved lines 25 years ago were using Blue Greys too... including the NYMR.

 

I believe that the Duchesses were in red livery if they were usually on the day trains and green if they were normally on the night trains, so largely irrelevant as to what an individual engine wears. Bearing in mind all ours today tend to run during the day and be "seen," so red seems completely appropriate, for both 6233 and Lizzie.

 

46229 did.

 

I don't have the numbers to hand (and it's late in the evening), but most of the London Midland Region "Coronations" (if not all) and some of the "Princesses" ended their BR service in the BR version of LMS red, whilst all of the Scottish Region locos remained green, so it was nothing to do with day/night trains (if such an allocation could be adhered to!).

 

4 'Princess Royals' numbers 46200/4/7/8 and 16 'Coronations' numbers 46225/6/8/9, 46236/8, 46240/3/4/5/6/7/8, 46251/4/6 received the BR maroon livery from 1957 onwards. Some wore the BR style lining at first, but all ended up with the LMS style lining as worn by 46229 in preservation before she was re-streamlined.

 

Churchward did paint a few passenger tank engines crimson lake.

 

From talking amongst plenty of 'non-enthusiasts' over the years I think they also prefer a loco in crimson lake - more eye-catching and prestigious/special looking compared to the dull working class dark green and black.

 

And not just the post 1968 generation. Many of us oldies were happy to see all this "mix and match" on both main line and heritage railways. It was steam and we were grateful for anything that was running back then. As you say, it was seen as normal back then.

 

Apple green, garter blue and malachite green - with the exception of the three "silver" A4s, the only colours worth applying to a loco.