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The WHR, success or flop ?

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by Baldwin, Aug 10, 2011.

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  1. Baldwin

    Baldwin Guest

     
    Baldwin, Sep 20, 2011
    #121
  2. AndrewT

    AndrewT Member

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    it has a severe image problem due to it's attitude in general (see elsewhere)

    What?
     
    AndrewT, Sep 20, 2011
    #122
  3. Christopher125

    Christopher125 Part of the furniture

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    Anyone else get a weird feeling of déja vu?

    Its like i've seen these arguments made several times before, by the same people.

    I must be mistaken, because they've all been discussed and debunked multiple times. Only someone trying to damage the image of the WHR, and trying to make their views look credible, would keep bringing them up regardless.

    Surely not...

    Chris
     
    Christopher125, Sep 20, 2011
    #123
  4. Baldwin

    Baldwin Guest

    Then prove me wrong, if you want to discuss what i've mentioned then you are in the right place, all i am doing is relating what i've seen, my opinion and what exists elsewhere on this subject by other posters. I have already stated that i am for the WHR but not in it's present form which is primarily a railway for the rich, this i am completely and totally against. Now if anyone disagrees with me, that's fine, but let's have a constructive and usefull debate.
     
    Baldwin, Sep 20, 2011
    #124
  5. Neil_Scott

    Neil_Scott Part of the furniture

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    A comparison with the West Somerset Railway, which is a similar length, is interesting. A return for the full length of the line costs £15.60 (or 1560 pence using their website's strange term). For a railway of similar length, charging twice the price is an interesting business decision.
     
    Neil_Scott, Sep 20, 2011
    #125
  6. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    Which is remarkably similar to the postings to a previous member of this forum . This debate was done to death previously and there is now no need to go over it again. On this one I'm sure there is an alternative forum to Nat Pres where it can be discussed where there are kindred spirits already in residence.
     
    Sidmouth, Sep 20, 2011
    #126
  7. Baldwin

    Baldwin Guest

    Can you tell me which debate so i can avoid mentioning it ? Thanks
     
    Baldwin, Sep 20, 2011
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  8. AndrewT

    AndrewT Member

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    Year to date (end August) WHR traffic is up 50.2% on last year and revenue 54.1%.
     
    AndrewT, Sep 20, 2011
    #128
  9. Gwenllian2001

    Gwenllian2001 Member

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    The fares are set to whatever people are willing to pay and, judging by the numbers travelling, do not seem to have been a deterrent so far.

    On the matter of local travel see: http://www.festrail.co.uk/ycerdyn.htm?mn=15

    Meic
     
    Gwenllian2001, Sep 20, 2011
    #129
  10. Jark91

    Jark91 Member

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    The WSR is 19 miles long to the WHR's 25...

    I don't think any 'interesting business decision' has been made, just a fairly standard one in that they've calculated how much they need to charge for a return fare based on projections of passenger numbers, coal costs etc etc. You have to remember that they're a business, they do actually have to make money. The West Somerset Railway is not in the process of building a new rake of carriages or providing new facilities at numerous stations along its route is it?
     
    Jark91, Sep 20, 2011
    #130
  11. Christopher125

    Christopher125 Part of the furniture

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    We've had constructive and useful debates over the points you've made.

    ...but like a broken record, you ignore all the counter arguments and post the same nonsense a short while later. Railcars were discussed only weeks ago, as was the line's profitability. Nothings changed.

    Chris
     
    Christopher125, Sep 20, 2011
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  12. Baldwin

    Baldwin Guest

    ....and profits ?
     
    Baldwin, Sep 20, 2011
    #132
  13. AndrewT

    AndrewT Member

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    Yes thanks.
     
    AndrewT, Sep 20, 2011
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  14. Baldwin

    Baldwin Guest

    !! Does that mean there are profits, for the WHR/FR spokesperson you don't seem to be too reasuring ? In anycase i would imagine it's too early to know for this year.
     
    Baldwin, Sep 20, 2011
    #134
  15. Sidmouth

    Sidmouth Resident of Nat Pres Staff Member Moderator

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    and what right have you (if any) to know at this point unless it's made public

    I think Andrew is being very reasonable in the circumstances of your repeated probing to look for any evidence to your support your own hypothesis
     
    Sidmouth, Sep 20, 2011
    #135
  16. Neil_Scott

    Neil_Scott Part of the furniture

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    I'd hardly say that an extra 7 miles is a reason to double the price of your fare in comparison with the nearest equivilant.

    What it seems to imply to me is that it costs a lot more to run the WHR compared to the WSR which is why I find it interesting. Your comments about new coaches and new facilties isn't 100% valid. If it was then what would be the point of 'Phase 5'?
     
    Neil_Scott, Sep 20, 2011
    #136
  17. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    Why should Andrew have to discuss the profits with anyone who is not an active member of WHR/FR and particularly someone who continues to remain anonymous, hiding behind a pseudonym, and persists in running down said successful and profitable enterprise.
     
    RalphW, Sep 20, 2011
    #137
  18. Christopher125

    Christopher125 Part of the furniture

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    Neil, the WSR is the nearest equivalent in route length, but that's only one factor - i dont think they have much else in comparison. Im sure we'll see changes made to fares and the timetable based on experience, the addition of PC-Harbour shuttles shows the willingness to do that, but this year they dont seem to have done too badly.

    Chris
     
    Christopher125, Sep 20, 2011
    #138
  19. Neil_Scott

    Neil_Scott Part of the furniture

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    Costs for preserved railways are pretty similar across the board Chris - staff, infrastructure improvements and maintenance, maintenance on locomotives and carriages, marketing, shop stock, general overheads (electricity, gas, telephone etc etc). With Phase 5 committed to improving parts of the WHR (and FR) why should the WHR cost twice as much as the WSR for a similar length of journey?
     
    Neil_Scott, Sep 20, 2011
    #139
  20. AndrewT

    AndrewT Member

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    Isn't the FR a better railway to compare with the WHR?

    A return from Caernarfon to Rhyd Ddu is £19 - EXACTLY THE SAME as a Port-Blaenau return on the FR for almost exactly the same distance.

    And kids under 16 go free with an adult. And locals get 66% off.
     
    AndrewT, Sep 20, 2011
    #140
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