Tin Bath Feb 14th 2016

Since 45690 last ran. October?

 

Last time I saw Galatea was in York on the Scarborough Spa's. But hang on I thought the ELR was cut off from the network for 4 weeks due to track renewal.

 

I suppose we will have to be grateful for 2 steam locos.

 

Wasn't it originally to be two black fives via Penistone, Copy Pit and Darwen. So as you point out, it seems strange that the organisers mention gauging issues

 

Stand to be corrected but am pretty sure a black 5 won't infringe anywhere that a Jub doesn't. In fact the original reroute was to take into account load gauge restrictions caused by Jubs instead of 5s.
A polite plea to those in the know who post from time to time to shine some light? Not too much to ask is it for a bit of honesty about enforced changes?
With apologies to @Moylesy98 too. Seems your info was right about Leander not being available.

 

It'll probably be 44871 and 48151 at this rate. The basic premise of this tour is quite clear- a stroll around the Pennines taking in Hope Valley, Penistone and Copy Pit. The problems encountered in meeting these aims seem to relate to what can fit on the entire route, how the Hope Valley Line is accessed and routing between Blackburn and Bolton.

In terms of the latter, this is not the first time that the final leg of the route has been changed. I have a suspicion that the reason for this monkey business is twofold- NR have turned around and stated that the Jubilee is not gauged for the run over Sough after all, and secondly, there is indeed a desire not to stretch the diesel leg too much.

I recall there was a threat to pull the plug on this itinerary a few years ago when there were both routing issues and motive power failures. One wonders whether it only works route-wise from Man Vic. Overall, there is still some interesting bits of track here and there and a hefty climb, but I think it will only get more difficult to run it in future.

 

Info I had was 45690 would probably not be ready in time and it might also need a test run . Have to feel for Mr Moyle as it seems every tour he books goes pear shaped at some point loco wise !

 

Indeed. Cheers Steve, Ray Mason/RTC seemed confident only 10 days ago that it would be the Jub pairing so something must have occurred in the meantime.

 

Although seemingly marooned at Bury, RTC have confirmed that 44871 will travel via Stubbins and Accrington to meet up with the ECS at Blackburn on Saturday. Stop Press: NR have vetoed the move as the line was closed in 1966.

 

Probably 2 X 47's with the 8F on the back for shunting purposes.....

 

As requested...

A very long chat with Nigel mostly about overseas steam but I mentioned the T.B.......
44871+45699 is the plan as at 23.15 tonight.

Some track maybe "rare" (even with the loss the evening mileage. ) Man Picc to Guide Bridge was a fav at the end of steam for late night bashers but I missed it . Something about starting on the non- 1500v side of Picc( newspapers) and changing locos at G.B.to electric.264T maybe. Im sure that a moderator can correct this and fill in the details!

A few tickets are available for what could still be a good climb of Copy Pit. I'm on as far as Sheffield . M/c Picc is required!
It's a pity that Blackburn to Bolton and return to the WCML is lost but operational issues have been the reason..........
IMHO it's still a worthwhile trip especially if the sun comes out (or it snows)

Ps a plan B has been worked out for the CME- prob out via Shap and back via the coast but this is only a heads up. It's early days and RTT will be our surest friend(!?!) the trips WILL run according to Nigel .....somehow!

NB I do not work for RTC but will resume regular posting when I feel less hostility to tour operators on NP and suspect a loco owner or two and TOC owner may feel similarly........just a suspicion of course!

48 yrs ago this would have been seen as a v good tour and certainly better than some that ran

 

....... Thanks for that Ray, nice to say hello to you & Ralph again on Saturday btw

 

To be honest, having done a few calculations, the current incarnation of the route is still 12 miles longer than the version of the trip run in February 2015, and this was considered by many on board (including myself) to be a successful trip that touched all bases. Whilst Altrincham and Penistone would have been nice, the evident lack of locomotives capable of traversing the entire route and (more than likely) the lack of servicing facilities south of Manchester means we are where we are. If it was a case of 45690 requiring a test run, then this was simply a case of so near, yet so far. If anything, this episode has probably proven beyond all reasonable doubt that sometimes, what might work out on paper at the planning stage may not work in practice once NR and subsequently WCRC eventually start number crunching.

 

The broader point, which perhaps applies to RTC most because of the imaginative and ambitious tours it offers, is the level to which actual and potential customers are made aware of all factors that can affect their purchase.
There is no reason why the extent to which detail is provisional cannot be emphasised in advertising so that customers make a purchase in the knowledge of what reasonable caveats may apply. Equally where a significant change becomes known the online info must change to reflect this without delay. Advertising a product which there is a strong chance will not be supplied is simply misleading. For example RTC must not advertise motive power until it is confirmed by the owners. If it emerges that that there is a distinct possibility what is advertised won't be possible change the advert accordingly and alert the customers that have already paid.
The analogy is perhaps a theatre performance. Sometimes the understudy has to take the leading role at short notice and this is a risk of booking. If the lead changes and its known well in advance, the ticket holders have a right to be informed so that they can decide whether to go ahead. If a different show altogether from the ticketed event is planned clearly it would be wrong to fail to communicate this as soon as known.

 

Couldn't have put it better myself, if the above, or something very close to it were to be implemented, the RTC's and WCR's of this world, would not as Ralph has already eluded to up thread, be feeling battered and bruised, thinking of 'packing it in', is it worth the effort etc. from some of the tirades they have had to endure on here, the majority of which have been of their own making, as these would have been greatly reduced, by some substantial margin, all by being more open and in some cases honest. The future prosperity of their buisnesses depends on it !

 

RTC are currently holding quite a lot of advance booking money against FS trips in the summer. Obviously 2016 summer weather may turn out to be no different from 2015. But if it is a long hot summer and there's a fire risk ban imposed by NR, I think this issue could come to a head. £25 off the next trip will not assuage the fury when 47 500 turns up. Ray Mason mentions Plan B for the WCMEs--- good. I hope they have a credible Plan B in place, or at least at the back of their minds, for the summer. I say this as a fan and supporter and occasional consumer of RTC and WCR's services.

 

Well, the answer is what Cath-Ex give you, which is a starting point, a couple of pick ups and a destination, which may or may not change if the March 1 trip is anything to go by, although it was flagged up to passengers. There's generally no advertising of the route, which is the whole point of it for me these days. Whilst timely communication is desirable, I can't really see what else could have been done by RTC.

The T&Cs cover most fronts (whether some of you like it of not), so short of a running commentary on the website, which is clearly a marketing tool, or a permanent direct line to all passengers as planning takes place, we'll just have to accept the risk or not bother at all.

As for the mysterious gauging issue, its not beyond the bounds of possibility that NR have retrospectively decided the Jubilee doesn't fit.

 

Don't think 47 500 will run again...