Titanic Carriages

Now that the LSWRCG & the TTBTHT seem to be out in the open, it would seem that now is the ideal time for us to break cover - we've kept quiet up until now!!!

(Nice to see there's an interest in both the Ironclads & the LSWR dinning carriages!)

First off, I am a founding member of the LSWRCG which was formed approx 18 months ago, and is made up of MHR volunteers, who volunteer in different aspects of the railway, but share a common interest in bring the BTK back to its former glory & running on the MHR - unfortunately covid struck not long after our formation & has since hampered any progress, but we have managed to do some work on it, the main one being to take pics before the open end bodyside was pulled down to prevent it becoming a danger to passing trains & despite what it looks like, its in prettty good nick - the frames & wheelsets appear to be sound, as do the compartments.

In the early days we were alerted to the BTK at the P&B along with two other carriages, if we wanted them - sadly lockdowns & work prevented us from actually getting down there to view the vehicles & every time we were about line something up, something covid related put paid to it!

Then, out of the blue, there was an article on BBC South about the two dinning carriages highlighting their plight & the fact that there was every chance they were used in the boat trains from Waterloo to Southampton carrying the unknowing passengers to their death on the Titanic......... The fact it then went national meant that the British Titanic Society saw the article & wanted to save them.

Our Chairman contacted the BTS to suggest a collaboration between the two groups, to which, after several meetings, they agreed. It was also agreed that a seperate body needed to be formed to protect the carriages, so The Titanic Boat Train Heritage Trust (of which, I am a Trustee) waa formed, with the stated aim of restoring them to how they would have been in 1912 & running them on the MHR.

So, just to be clear, the TTBTHT is a collaboration between the BTS & the LSWRCG, with its board of trustee's being made up from these two groups, and nothing to do with the MHR*.

Also, please bear in mind that the TTBTHT is also in its infancy and, thanks to covid, getting all the pieces of the jigsaw to fall into place, are taking longer than we would like, which is why the website isn't yet fully functional - as soon as it is, trust me you'll know about it!!

The two carriages are currently being worked on, as time allows, to clear them of crud & brace them prior to being transported to Hampshire, once this is completed, they will be moved to a facilty (away from the MHR) to allow them to be worked on under cover.

* Please note that altough the TBTHT is a stand alone organisation, the MHR are fully supportive of us and what we are striving to achieve, so much so that we can call upon them for help & advice as and when we need it, along with any kit.

I hope the above sheds some light on things, and, as and when there is any news to impart, we will do so, but don't be surprised if its sporadic.

Cheers

Dave

 

Thanks for the update. Good to hear a bit more detail around the plans, and the fact that the BTK is also included in the plans. Looking forward to following the progress on this, and hopefully having the BTS involved will help accelerate progress.

 

Thank you Alan for your kind comment, but please remember that this venture is a stand alone from the BTS & LSWRCG, and there is one 'magic' word in all of this ..... Titanic!

As said, I wil endeavour to keep folks updated as and when as much as possible - there's a lot of mundane stuff going on at the mo, but its nowt to shout about - yet.......

 

Great to hear some very good news over these carriages and that the BTK is part of those plans, Will the second BTK at some stage become part of those plans, as the owner is said to be moving it else where, Are there any plans to if possible acquire, further vehicles or underframes, to add further vehicles to the rake, The original Iron clad kitchen car, was lost in a fire some years ago, and this would certainly be one vehicle that should be part of an re created LSWR coach rake if only for operational reasons to create an stand alone rake, if period dining is the plan, it would be expensive, as it would be all new construction, and hard wood isn't cheap but it would finish the rake, if you had BTK,, Dining car, Kitchen car Dining car, BTK .

 

I’d imagine the LSWRCG have more than enough on their plate at the moment Martin. As mentioned in previous posts, 1357 is moving to the Gwendraeth Railway. So at least it’s future is assured and it’s being looked after. Always possible that it might make a move to Hampshire in future.

It would be nice to think the collection could grow in future. The TK at Horsebridge would be a nice addition. However that is currently well looked after and nothing to sugggest it would be available.

 

The TTBTHT website seems to have been updated, and includes details of the planned timescales, costs and schedules of work.

Construction of a restoration shed in Hampshire is mentioned. Will be interesting to see where this is, as a previous post indicates it will not be at the MHR.

A Target completion date of 2025 is given. Seems ambitious, but the Titanic connection should open up a new stream of funding from those interested in the ship, rather than just railway enthusiasts,

https://titanicboattrainheritagetrust.org/objective/

 

Indeed, the website has been updated, and since then more content has been added, and will continue to be as and when time allows, BUT most importantly, the donations page is now live, and if you believe in us and what we are aiming to achieve, you can help us with a donation, large or small to help us achieve our goal!

There was also a working party earlier in the week & car 76 is now finally clear of accumulated detritus & ready for the timbers to be braced & car 70 is planned to be worked on this coming week & it should be a quicker job to clear it of crud ready for bracing, as it doesn't contain the amount #76 did......

So, once the carriages have had bracing timbers fitted, it won't be long before they are transported back to Hampshire.

 

Update,

The website is now coming on in leaps & bounds, with the news section up to date, though the news of todays working party will be added at some point tomorrow, and the online shop is also up and running, but not proceesing orders just yet!

Please take the time to have a look, and any constructive feedback would be most welcome & no doubt taken on board. https://titanicboattrainheritagetrust.org/

 

Half of me is pleased to hear of this. The other half just thinks ''about thirty years too late''! At least the Mid Hants are making a start.

 

That's the spirit Paul...

Anyway, a very informative website, for a very worthy project. I look forward to watching it progress and, maybe one day, have a ride in them, perhaps with a T3 upfront...?
2025 does seem a remarkable target, that requires over £300,000 to be raised every year. Is this planned to all be from public donations, will grant funding be sought? I know nothing of the British Titanic society, do they sit on a well of potential funds, or is it just access to more potential donors?

PS. One very minor spacing issue on the front page of the website, the text just below the scrolling colourised carriage drawing overlaps the photo for the first line.

 

Alex,

Once we have achieved charitable status, the reasons for the delay explained up thread, then we can apply for & hopefully get grant funding.... we know ther is no cat iron certainty of that, but this is a very 'unique' project.

The timescales on the website at the mo are jus there for illustrative purposes only, and will be updated once we have to carriages at close quarters, and can then start getting acurate costs etc, as currently with the vehicles still in Wales, its best to wait until then!

And thanks for the heads up, re the text, will let the website guru know.

 

For those of you who haven't seen it - Steam Railway have picked up on our project.



Though, as I stated ealier, the dining saloons will be restored away from the MHR, and once they are ready, then they will run and be naintained on the line!

We also now have a facebook page - https://www.facebook.com/The-Titanic-Boat-Train-Heritage-Trust-105657405360228 for those of you who may wish to follow our progress this way......

 

Referring to the SR quote - is there any evidence that these carriages worked the train carrying passengers to the Titanic? If not, then perhaps different wording needs to be used in future PR to avoid distorting history?

 

Do we even know what the usual consist of Southampton bound American Boat Expresses was? I've seen it suggested that there were two such specials connected with Titanics sailing. Were these seperate class of trains or were both conveying all three clas of passengers? Would a dining car have been necessary on such a short 80 mile journey? I can understand them being used on Boat Expresses to/from Plymouth but surely not the Southampton ones. In 1912 how many dining cars did the LSWR have and to what use were they put?

Sorry, the cynic in me cannot but help feeling that this is all highly improbable, but I have to conceed that it is a good preservation sales pitch.

Peter

 

I think it is very unlikely they were ever used on Southampton services. Weddell's book on LSWR carriages notes that the first group of eight restaurant cars were built to run with the newly-ordered corridor stock, which was used on the Waterloo - Bournemouth and Waterloo - West of England services. Later on, four more were built, two of which were used on Bournemouth - Birkenhead / Sheffield through services.

It would take some research, but the LSWR generally ran carriages in fixed numbered sets; around 1912, I think those would still have been non-corridor sets running to Southampton, with the corridor carriages reserved for the longer distance journeys.

Tom

 

As has been stated already on here, they are going to an offsite location for restoration and only then going to the MHR to run and maintain.

 

The words in SR are theirs, not ours and we always state that there is no cast iron guarantee that the coaches were used in one of the trains to Soton docks that day, but there is a strong possiblitly that could well have been!

If you want really bad journalism - see the Abergavenny Chronicle........ don't think the MHR would be too impressed, but they do say any publicity is good publicity......

That said, whether proven or not, they are the last survivours of their kind that could have seen regular use in the boat trains to Soton, as boat trains were generally formed from what was available in the carriage sidings & formed according to need. and yes dining saloons were included in that.

As an aside, we are doing a lot of background research to help us develope a better picture, and some photgraphic evidence, does indeed suggest that dining saloons were a part of boat trains to Soton docks.

 

I appreciate that the words used were those of SR, I just think there may be a way for the group to phrase things when dealing with publicity/press releases/website material.

 

We do, but not having seen a proof before it went to print there was no way for us to correct things so we are at the mercy of those who publish!