Tornado

And I have a feeling Tornado has been down here in Kent?

Might even have gone through West Malling less than a mile from where I live?

Didn't go out for it as I was watching some paint dry!

LOL, Wink!

 

What colour was it? :wink: AND, more importantly, what shade? eace:

 

Tornado to Torbay 17 July 2011

The A1 4-6-2 No 60163 Tornado has the charge of the July excursions of the Torbay Express and I enjoyed an excellent journey with them despite my late booking. An additional pleasure was the sight at Bristol Temple Meads of 4-6-0 No 5029 Nunney Castle, heading the same day's RTC excursion to Weymouth.

Tornado departed smartly from Bristol, reaching 75 before Yatton. After the Weston Super Mare stop, we were back in the seventies before Bridgwater and continued around the maximum until slowing for the Taunton stop. The climb to Whiteball was less impressive and we entered the tunnel at only 46 mph, but we flew down the hill for mile after mile until being stopped at Cowley Bridge Junction. After Exeter we were again up to 75 by Exminster but our run along the sea wall was in the sixties. We climbed smartly from Aller Junction and went over the top at Torre at 44 mph. On transferring to the Paignton and Dartmouth Railway we again climbed smartly from Goodrington to Churston at the line speed of 25 mph before dropping to the terminus at Kingswear.

During the break, I enjoyed a rousing return trip to Paignton with No 7827 Lydham Manor, resplendent in sparkling BR lined black. On the return run with Tornado, the climbs to Churston and Torre were more measured, after an afternoon of heavy showers. But back on the main line, we tore along up the Exe estuary in the seventies, and later the climb of Whiteball saw our 71 at Tiverton reduced only to 63 at the tunnel entrance. More fast running to Taunton and beyond was capped by a brisk run for home, with a minimum up to Flax Bourton of 69 mph, a fine end to an excellent day out.

See 20 photos at http://pjhtransportpix.zenfolio.com/p466612866

Peter on a cool damp July afternoon in Manchester
http://pjhtransportpix.zenfolio.com

 

There are speed restrictions along the sea wall which would explain running in the 60's.... The crews (particularly Fred Lewis) like to have a crack at Whiteball to see how fast they can get over the summit which always makes for an entertaining departure from Exeter on the way home. The climbs to Churston are almost the most challenging with 12 on, twisting all the way and no chance of a run at either side.....

Foxy

 

Received the new Tornado Telegraph last week, and have now decided this months covenantor payment is the last.

Looking over the list of "tours" etc.., yet again nothing is earmarked for a departure from the area local to where she was built.

All of this is in direct opposition to what was said when we originally signed up, "misled" is the term i would now use.

Only way i have got to see her this year is when she did a week at NYMR, which was originally not due to happen, but fitted in due to the fallout with WCRC.

The trust seem to have lost sight of the mass of local interest and help used in her construction. Going to shildon etc.., is not the same as experieincing her at 75mph on the main line. Sadly that is something im not going to experience, unless im willing to travel quite a distance.

Instead we are now going to put our £££ and support behind 60007, she is local (45 mins away), is in regular operation (when repaired i know!!!), and most importantly once a year a excursion is run from Newcastle that we can do, at 75mph.

Im sure im not alone in this matter....

 

A "fallout" which should be quantified with the fact that it's been a paperwork issue and - as far as I could see at the time - WCRC objecting to the use of a contractor who have done an excellent job on the locomotive.

I think you're missing sight of why this currently is. She's booked in with Steam Dreams primarily this year and as such can only do the work she can find. The A1 Trust are not a railtour operator in themselves. I don't think it's by any means a deliberate act by the A1 Trust to shut anyone out, which is what seems to be implied here! I might add, many covenators do travel long distances to see her round the country. I know I have, from Sidcup to Darlington to see her through the fence in 2008, from Malta to Loughborough in 2010, and Sidcup to Didcot/York/and various other locations around the country!

This happens to all mainline locomotives, their work changes, routes change, it's a cycle and rest assured, she will do more trips 'oop north in the future. That's just how it goes.

I seem to recall you raised this previously in this thread and garnered much the same reaction the last time.

 

Only problem this time is "enough is enough", mind is made up, i have defended them many times in the past, however this is the final straw.

SD have made no attempts to organise anything from around here, perhaps they are on easy street. The only attempt at a tour from around here was The Talisman - it was supposed to be a yearly event, am i missing something, as it has not happened for the last 3 years. That would probably have done, but no its too much to expect.

I have travlled many miles to start tours as well, however that was of my own choice, and i was not misled into thinking local starts were to happen on a regular basis. Something that has never happened.

Bear in mind its not just me, alot of friends and colleagues are also VERY unhappy at the current ongoing situation.

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but SD are the Railtour operator, no? Tornado has to run the work she has. I might add there's been a lot of press about the problems of pathing on the ECML and WCML the last few months for railtours, so perhaps their viability at this time might be in doubt?

Tornado has only been running on the mainline for two and a bit years out of the three years she's been in service.

Circumstances change. I don't understand why you are taking it up on here in any event: write to the Trust and make your concerns known. If you have a beef as a covenator, make it known you are unhappy, and why. If enough covenators are unhappy, they should say it direct to the trust and see if the trust can do something about it. It hasn't helped the situation, RE WCRC, but that's how it goes and I am sure it's not all one traffic as to which group is to blame for the breakdown. But saying it out loud on nat pres won't help matters.

You've made up your mind it seems, good luck to you and enjoy 60007 - one of my favourites too, lovely engine.

 

I was booked on the White Rose due to run by the A1ST, at no point have I received any letter of confirmation that the tour was postponed/cancelled, it was difficult enough to get any information out of SD. With the lack of work caused by the fallout with WCR, I am very surprised that they haven't tried to run a couple of tours themselves, it would be nice to have a run on the White Rose to Leeds on a Saturday.

 

Whilst I have some empathy with that view, Guycarr's 'beef' has prompted a fair amount of discussion, which is why we come on Nat Pres isn't it?

 

True, very true.

 

I'd love Tornado to visit Sussex but sadly thats looks unlikely at the moment. Especially after SD removed Chichester from the destinations. Mind you I have travelled out to see her 3 times so far (with a 4th in October) once to Winchfield and Eastleigh on her first runs in the South in 2009, then Edenbridge (which was a waste as lighting was bad and the loco and support coach didn't fit the platform) again 2009 and Woking and Clapham back in December. Then hopefully on the Mid Hants where I hope to actually ride behind her.

Also with the liviery extension do you think it will be 9 months with early crest and 9 with late crest.

 

It was never the trusts intention to become a TOC, and at least steam dreams and torbay express are providing revenue earning work, i dont remember reading anywhere that Tornado was going to be a crusader for Northern Steam tours.
If enough people within the trust make it known that they want it to start organising tours and booking (or even owning) other engines (60532?) then maybe that might happen, but taking bat (and wallet) home en masse certainly wont
Yes its disappointing i myself only get to see 60163 when shes up here too but theres always next year

It will be interesting to see whether something is done in the next winter maintenence to resolve the wcrc impasse... and then what other objection arises.

 

Yes, hopefully if the problem can be resolved the resulting effect must benefit both organisations?

 

Further thoughts...I can understand entirely the thought that you would want the locomotive to visit the area it was built in, most definitely, and of course everyone wants to see period steam locomotive in its correct setting on a railtour. But sometimes you get thrown a curve ball - the boiler troubles, the WCRC problems, all well publicized, but what isn't very well brought across by the media is that she's a working engine. She needs work to run. They have bills to pay off on the build still to some extent, and of course the engine's own running costs. This doesn't happen by picking and choosing what trains to run, you need to run as many as you can profitably, and what are actually available to you.

 

Ultimately we all want Tornado to be a success - to do that, she has to be commercially viable. With all the recent issues, they just dont have the luxury of taking chances on running railtours.

Not only is it asking a lot of those in the Trust to organise a railtour with her now operating all across the country, but even if they had the time and could risk the money, its hard to see The Talisman getting the same publicity and support it once did either. Times have changed, and quite rightly IMO she's going where the work is.

Chris

 

Ever since steam returned to the main line in the 1970s there have been calls for "some trips starting from X please" but unless these tours attract custom, operators won't run them. It may well be that results from previous tours or market research has led SD to believe that there is not a sufficient market for tours starting in the NE plus who knows what NR have decided regarding pathing any such tours. As for the A1 group, they have to go were the work is pure and simple.

 

SD have been trying new start points this year to see how popular they are. For example the Canterbury run which started from Alton (original start point was Aldershot) was a trial run to see if the market was there for further trips. Going by the amount of people who boarded at Alton, Farnham and Aldershot there will be some more runs from these start points next year. But you never know. It might not have been enough for SD. Perhaps on their past trips from the NE the support hasn't been good enough to justify going from there again.

 

I'd say the same for Lewes after seeing some videos on July 14th. I'd say Haywards Heath as well but we get a few pick ups on Bath and Bristol tours although SD was more popular by the look of it despite being a weekday whereas the Bath and Bristols are Saturday's.

 

In which case why not make it public knowledge, the tour in November to London never fails to sell out, and a path is not an issue either.

If have no "beef" with the A1ST, it just that if times and circumstances have changed from our initial conversations and promises, that is fine, then so have mine, and 60007 it is.