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Tornado

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Leander's Shovel, Oct 20, 2007.

  1. fish7373

    fish7373 Member Friend

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    Did they talk about the long term future of running heritage trains on the underground may finish in years to come or has that changed Martin.
     
  2. MellishR

    MellishR Part of the furniture Friend

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    If we want to discuss that we'd better have a new thread.
     
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  3. Chris86

    Chris86 Member

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    Is 45305 due to be returning to the mainline this year?

    Last I saw it had its boiler out of the frames at Loughborough.

    Chris
     
  4. 60017

    60017 Part of the furniture Friend

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    50th for IT57 and 10th for the A1 :)

    Can't believe it's almost 10 years since I took this pic @ Leicester...how time flies .....

    DSC02346lr.jpg
     
  5. Johnb

    Johnb Part of the furniture

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    I was there too, I thought it would be worth going to see how they spend the money I give them! I'm surprised that you didn't tackle Mark Allatt for suggesting that Thompson wa little more than an engineering vandal! A couple of things I didn't know was that Tornado has clocked up over 100,000 miles and it's on a 5 year not a 10 year overhaul cycle.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018
  6. Eightpot

    Eightpot Part of the furniture Account Suspended

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    On which basis only 50,000 miles between cylinder re-boring doesn't sound a lot compared with lorry Diesel engines capable of running 1/2 a million miles or more. Is that sort of figure much the norm?
     
  7. 242A1

    242A1 Active Member

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    One of the many issues that LDP was addressing. Others followed, lubrication, pistonhead design, multi piston ring development, improvements in materials. And that is before valve design is touched upon. The subject has been raised before.

    We talk about new builds but by and large all we do is recreate old machines and so perpetuate age old problems. So long as we are content with this situation nothing will change until someone finds the costs objectionable.
     
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  8. gwalkeriow

    gwalkeriow Active Member

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    I suspect that many Locos will go further between rebores but Tornado is being kept in tip top condition to enable it to out in the performances that it routinely does on the mainline.
     
  9. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Well-Known Member

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    Mark has a different side of the story to me and is close to the Gresley family and was close to Dorothy Mather (Peppercorns widow) too.

    You have to remember we’re coming at it from very different positions and he is also the chair of the Gresley society.

    Ultimately it was worth hearing his and David Elliot’s views - David’s views in particular illuminating.

    I am skeptical that the third set of valve gear on a Thompson or Peppercorn Pacific could fail in the manner described but he’s the locomotive engineer who had produced Britains fastest steam locomotive in everyday service and will soon to be the man who has produced Britains most powerful one too.

    Thompson and his wartime decisions are always going to divide opinion and it’ll always be an uphill slog to get a fair hearing. But hey - I can try.
     
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  10. ruddingtonrsh56

    ruddingtonrsh56 New Member

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  11. R.W. Grant

    R.W. Grant New Member

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    Old is the keyword. Rebuilt or new build they come with most of the problems our forefathers faced daily. They replicate a way of life now long past and that's why I love em as they are. I do not know what a 2018 ultra high tech Tornado would look or sound like but I will settle for the current model. It simply deserves respect and repairs.
     
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  12. 242A1

    242A1 Active Member

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    Not looking at building an ultra high tech version but more at including some improvements "under the skin" so to speak. The result would look and sound very much like it does now. An SGS machine may appear in the future or there again it might not, it depends on a myriad of factors.
     
  13. Johnb

    Johnb Part of the furniture

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    Agree, Tornado wasn't intended to be a super 21st century loco or a replica just built as the next A1 in the series after a gap of 60 years, it's the same with the P2 now one third built. There is a precedent in the UK, BR built 28 locos of a class of small tank engines in the early 50s, the North Eastern J72 originally dating from 1898.
     
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  14. 242A1

    242A1 Active Member

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    Tornado was indeed just intended to be the next one in the class. It isn't super even by 20th century standards let alone 21st century. The building of the machine, that was super, what an achievement and what an example. The P2 is not quite the same. In view of all the design improvements being carried out it could be said that 2007 should be in its own subclass. If all goes to plan it will be the greater achievement in terms of what is actually built. The A1 showed that it was possible for talented enthusiasts to produce the necessary funding to be able to build such machines. It also put paid to the doubters who maintained that it could never be done. For other new build groups 60163 ought to provide great encouragement.
     
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  15. 240P15

    240P15 Member

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    Absolutely agree with you!

    Ten years after this fantastic achievement there are still people that whimper and complaining that the locomotive wasn`t build after their receipt and whishes of a hyper- modern ,super- fancy,-unbelivable efficient, infallible locomotive etc. etc ....:Banghead:

    Long liv 60163 Tornado! We love you!:)
     
  16. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Part of the furniture Friend

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  17. 5944

    5944 Part of the furniture

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  18. MarkinDurham

    MarkinDurham Well-Known Member

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    I remember that being discussed. Personally I think that the A1 Trust got Tornado pretty much right first time. Porta's ideas would have been too much in one go, particularly as Tornado was ground-breaking anyway, being the first main line 'new build'. I don't think that 'authority' would have been too enamoured with such a move so away from the original design either.

    Now, however, the game has changed - the A1 Trust are well on the way to completing their second project, and it is accepted by 'authority' that new-builds are acceptable for main line operation. So, whilst I can't see the A1 gang tackling Porta's A1, there is no reason, other than funding, of course, why someone else couldn't do it. It's not something that appeals to me, but who is prepared to go for it?
     
  19. The Green Howards

    The Green Howards Part of the furniture Friend

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    Well, there was the 5AT project, which would have incorporated a lot of 'new' thinking - but what happened to that?
     
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  20. MarkinDurham

    MarkinDurham Well-Known Member

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    Exactly - there isn't the appeal for such things, it would seem.
     
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