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Tornado

Discussion in 'Steam Traction' started by Leander's Shovel, Oct 20, 2007.

  1. MarkinDurham

    MarkinDurham Well-Known Member

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    Wardy didn't have much of a say with the A1 Trust, did he? Hmm...
     
  2. guycarr360

    guycarr360 Part of the furniture

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    Read it, a great book.
     
  3. Romsey

    Romsey Part of the furniture

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    To give him some credit, it wasn't David Ward who "banned" steam on the Southern Region in 1975.
    From memory, it was the General Manager of the day ( David McKenna?) who banned steam locos without diesel pilots after a trespass incident at Eastleigh which caused delays. It was a quiet Sunday and not much else appeared on the Regional Control Log. (Normally minor delays would have got lost under over-run possessions or crew shortages.)

    Cheers, Neil
     
  4. Johnb

    Johnb Nat Pres stalwart

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    I think there is a lot of truth in what's been said about heiping to fill SRs correspondence columns for months to come. The local newspaper editor was one of my neighbours and when things were flagging a bit he would write something controversial under a pseudonym, dog poo on footpaths was always a good one.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
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  5. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

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    That Ward piece is an interesting one in that whilst the contents haven't been discussed by Moderators on here because it doesn't concern us, you could make a case for it being deleted were it to have been posted as a comment on here. That's because it has the potential to question the integrity of the decisions made by professionals in allowing the A1 to do what it did and is arguably inflamatory and defaming. In other words it gets close to the same reasons why discussion of the Wootton Bassett incident was halted on here.

    As for the Tornado incident itself and what DBC was quoted as saying back in #4553, no doubt the A1ST will comment when they are ready and also when others have made a judgement because I assume that the A1ST is not the only interested party in this.

    And then there is any learning that may be relevant for other locomotive owners. On that point it really does remain to be seen. As always, the wisdom on such matters comes from people like @LMS2968 in relation to what might have happened and why. It may turn out to be the case that if there is any 'learning' then it may just be something that only the A1ST needs to internalise. Who can say? What we will do know though, without even thinking about it is that the operation of steam on the main line now has a number of 21st Century and also artificial constraints placed on it that demand a consistently high level of attention to detail on everything including maintenance.

    There is a woodworking maxim about 'measuring twice and cutting once'. I don't know what the steam locomotive engineering equivalent is but I am sure there is one and I take my hat off to those who have responsibility for such things. The devil will be in the detail, as they say.
     
  6. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    In defence of the current incumbents in the editor's chair at Steam Railway, it was a lot worse under previous editors. I have found the current Steam Railway to be a lot better than it was, say, five years ago. More balanced if still having a bit of the tabloid about it at times. Nick Broderick I’ve found to be a good egg. Danny Hopkins ten years ago I thought was too (he’s over at practical classics now).

    Publishing David Ward's letter is of course, absolutely fine. I respect freedom of speech to voice an opinion. I thought Graeme Bunker's response was very measured. One suspects that Mr Ward likes to poke the bear and I wonder if the misinformation he has provided on this occasion was deliberate. We can but speculate. If they publish my letter, he also has a right of reply. That’s as it should be in a letter publishing context. Challenge and response. If we can remain civil, all the better.

    I am no BR-era man. I'm too young. Take my views with a pinch of salt if you must, they come from the eyes and ears of one who reads extensively, as opposed experiencing the original locomotives in their heyday.

    I perhaps was too hasty in one respect. I questioned whether they were not 90mph locomotives. That was the wrong assertion. I should have pointed out that Tornado is a 100mph locomotive.
     
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  7. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

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    Could someone please enlighten me as to the nature of Mr Ward's professional qualifications?
     
  8. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    Former director of BR special trains. He has also been involved with (AFAIK), Royal Scot's ownership at Bressingham at one stage, together with other roles in the heritage sector.
     
  9. billbedford

    billbedford Member Friend

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    self importance!
     
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  10. Sheff

    Sheff Resident of Nat Pres

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    Yes indeed - but that's his CV. I was looking for MIMechE or similar.
     
  11. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Didn't you take him to task a few years ago in Hertiage Railway when they published something about 60007 being in the 'wrong livery' according to him Simon?
     
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  12. Jerr Grey

    Jerr Grey New Member Account Suspended

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    I don't think you will find any actual engineering experience or qualifications are held by Mr. Ward.
     
  13. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Nat Pres stalwart

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    I don't think he has an engineering background, with his various jobs with BR he was more to do with the clerical/admin side of things. Put it this way I don't think I've seen a photo of him getting his hands dirty unlike say Richard Hardy.
     
  14. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    Good memory! I did yes.
     
  15. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    I hesitate to write this, as it might be construed as some form of defence of Mr Ward, but qualifications do not always equal experience and knowledge, though they are a good indicator of quality.

    In short, one's whole story cannot be told from one's qualifications.
     
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  16. Martin Perry

    Martin Perry Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    Conversely it needs to be the right experience and knowledge ...
     
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  17. S.A.C. Martin

    S.A.C. Martin Part of the furniture

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    Absolutely.
     
  18. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Volunteer at Bressingham. Have seen him at the regulator of some of their steam locos many years ago.
     
  19. martin1656

    martin1656 Nat Pres stalwart Friend

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    Yes and didn't he have a role with flying Scotsman also, at a time that was not exactly in the loco's best interests, As I see it Mr Ward has an opinion on most things, but its not always been proven to be the right opinion, he was an trustee at Bresingham don't forget when royal Scot had its problems, first over an inhouse restoration, then when it was sub contracted to Southall under the very same engineer that did much of the modifications to 60103, that turned out to be so damaging, im not sure what role Mr Ward played over the mismanagement of 4472 , Or in the funding shortfalls of 6100 , which saw it rescued by IOS,and such was the extent of work needed, it could be said it needed a second overhaul.
    I judge people not on what they say in the preservation world, but by what they have done, , I would say Mr Ward is yesterdays man, much of his " expertise" is doughtful , obtained though using other high profile people, or organisations, that no one dared to criticize at the time. SLOA, BR , ETC.
     
  20. Eightpot

    Eightpot Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Was this the same David Ward that had an article in the 'Beano' many years ago explaining how it was absolutely impossible to even imagine running steam-hauled trains out of Marylebone station, let alone it actually happening?
     
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