Tornado

Wait for the anti Brunswick Green foamers!!

 

I really don't see how anyone can justifiably complain about livery change when the A1SLT are giving her an airing in the three 'authentic' guises for an A1. Joe public won't really care and each change brings a fresh interest from the enthusiast perspective. The 'Tornado effect' marches on !

 

Well, its core livery is going to be apple green, so even those of us who think Brunswick green is a bit dull probably can't begrudge a spell in it. Personally, I'm looking forward to its stint in blue - should look good along side 60007 when it happens. Its the dullness of everything being BR green or black I'm against. Variety is the spice of life!

 

It's a chance to do everything we did with Tornado already.. all over again

 

I'm not so sure John. I think Joe Public who have actually seen her might be a bit non-plussed. They'll probably think Scotsman is Tornado when it returns! But it's only paint, and it's not forever.

 

100% agree

 

Its called - publicity - education - self promotion - variety

As long as it is authentic, unlike that red 8F abortion, I really can't see why the likes of the PMRT or 6201 people can't see the value of stints in unfamiliar colours - a blue semi - not seen for sixty or so years, a green princess - not seen for fifty or more years.

As for the anti BR lobbyists - get a life will you! As Carnforth has proved beyond argument - its what the public react to because its what went past their homes, workplaces, etc during their cogent lives. They pay for the product - they get what they want, so don't insult their intelligence, or pollute your heritage fund raising efforts by presenting them with Disneyland dressed up as preservation

Come on you guys - why not???? The A1 people have stolen a march on you - and how?

 

Who's frothing now eh Frank? Your statement only applies to those over a certain age, whom I think you'll find are not necessarily in the majority in the preservation movement anymore, and certainly most of the 'public' don't care either way. There's no shortage of BR loco's or pre-grouping ones with duplicates on the main line (eg A4's and Black 5's) where BR is correct, or can be used whilst others in the class can display the earlier liveries so every-one's happy. I and many others are happy to see steam in a variety of liveries, including both BR and pre-BR. So we don't need to froth over paint

 

A Duchess in LMS post war black?

 

I'm happy in whatever guise Tornado appears, but just a thought on the repaint, from a historical perspective (and I wait to be corrected, not having had time to consult WY or the Green Bible):

If the next repaint is BR (Brunswick) green, will the chimney be a cast, rimmed version, and if so, will it revert to the fabricated, rimless on repainting to BR blue?

I would have thought that the logical colour-scheme progression would have been LNER (grass) green, BR blue, BR (Brunswick) green.

Still, as long as she's out-and-about I don't care!

 

In what way have Carnforth proved anything? What is your evidence? How can it be valid when West Coast don't actually off a choice of liveries? Have loadings on the West Highland dramatically improved because the locos are now black? It's only a particular type of anal enthusiast enthusiasts who care passionately about what paticular colour a loco is, and I suggest that both on the Scarborough Spa and the West Highland it is not enthusiasts who predominate. If you want to spout rubbish based on your personal preferences, be prepared to be challenged!

I've already nailed my colours to the mast - I like variety, and if everything was in pre- nationalisation colours I'd probably bemoan the lack of BR livery. There needs to be balance whereas people like Frank seem to be heavily biased in one direction.

 

5972 isnt exactly authentic and it's also at Carnforth and makes quite a lot of money I'd imagine.

 

I'd imagine that most of the people that give two pence about the livery of a main line loco are photographers who may or may not (I hasten to add!) contibute time or money to preserved locos.

 

Oh dear I can see this thread going down the livery wars path very quickly. A steamer in steam in ANY livery is far better than a loco being stuffed and mounted in a museum ( no offence to NRM ).
As a supporter of 8624 (the red 8F), she has gained far more publicity (and earnings) in her current livery in her first year of service than many 'paint it black' locos earn in their first 2 or 3 years, let alone the list of railways who wanted to hire her in red.

Far better to upset a few but have the money in 10 years for a Heavy General overhaul than run 10 years and find out there's not enough money in the bank and have the loco sat in a siding for years while the funds are raised. Loco's need to earn money, that's a fact, look how many owners of 4472 have gone bankrupt or nearly bankrupt trying to do the 'right' thing. If raising money means a different livery then so be it. I think the A1 trust have it spot on, repaint it every couple of years to a new livery and get the enthusiasts back out to support her.

Sporting an unauthentic livery also gives enthusiasts and photographers a chance to see what a loco would have looked like in a livery it wouldn't have worn in BR service. Also lets not forget the fact that most BR standards have spent more time (and in many cases more service time) in preservation that they ever did in the days of BR.

Dave

 

As far as Carnforth locos are concerned, the liveries are entirely the owner's preference, which just happens to be BR - except, of course, 5972, which happens to earn a bit of money from its livery.

He who pays the painter calls the tune.

JS

 

That is exactly the market being played to with the Jacobite / Scarborough Spa / Cambrian Coast and it is why 5972 was put on the SSE publicity - to exploit the even more familiar H Potter effect, only for it to be found out of gauge. Its the "don't frighten the horses" factor that fills the trains and WCRC has said repeatedly that they perceive that to be familiar colour schemes.

Personally I vastly prefer 2005 and 3442 in apple green - but it isn't happening, and I will have to put up with 60163 in the dreaded brunswick green, then caley blue, for which I can't wait and then back to apple green in which she looks superb.

You mention engines needing revenue towards overhaul and running costs - as already mentioned above - some seem happy to turn their backs on it. Variety is indeed the spice of life - when it is also compatible with preservation. (sorry - that's my line in the sand)

 

Can't argue with that.

For the record, 8624 is a Southern machine, if the owning group decieded it deserves a turn as s8624 in southern green... i'd make an effort to go see it, no doubt would several others.. It looks like an 8F.. it definitely sounds like an 8F and goes like an 8F.

I'm also game for a BR Blue with double arrows if someone dares do it.

An engine is for life, paint is just for fun, it can be changed at any time.

History didnt stop in 1968, it's still being written and its not as if paint is anything permanent, if it pays the billls... it pays the bills and ensures a preserved engine is both maintained and working

 

As I understand it, that was the original plan, but I believe that it's been changed slightly because of the personal circumstances (terminal illness, iirc) of one of the major supporters?

Anyway, as long as she's out and about, doing what she was built for, ultimately the paint is only there to protect the metalwork against corrosion
(Runs for cover )

Oh, don't forget that there are the two Brunswick Green liveries too - 'cycling lion' and 'ferret 'n' dartboard'