Tours Getting Cancelled

I don't think that you would expect it for the VSOE. To be honest I would not think that children and the ambience they are aiming to create really mix.

 

I think you have a good idea here.

I believe when you are competing with the family leisure market it is about offering a day out and this had to be cost effective, for the family compared to all forms of competing leisure industry attractions. We need to retain and develop this market, if we want to continue filling trains. In general there are now far too many tours on offer for the enthusiast market to be able to provide the majority of passengers.

 

£142 rtn each.. I think I picked out on 5th Oct and back on the 8th...

 

Well ideally, it would be a "pay on the day" full dining service but agree that has risks with control of costs. A "bistro" style or "griddle car a la Great Central" could have scope though. I'm just thinking how popular these informal restaurant car services are at preserved railway galas such as that at WSR and SVR. I know it's a different operation but given enough imagination I'm sure it could work. I notice Pathfindet do offer a "Gricers Grill" on some of their diesel hauled tours so this idea has obviously been looked at. Just needs a bit of development. My guess is that SD will get there first as they are by far the most innovative and commercially astute Promoter with VT a close 2nd IMHO.

 

Thanks!

 

I'm not sure the cost of taking a child to Frankfurt for the weekend is a particularly good comparison in this context. After all, we're talking about leisure activities primarily. Air fares would compare more logically with service train fares than charter train fares surely ?

Taking a more appropriate comparison, the cost of a season ticket for Watford FC for an 8 to 15 year old child is £35 against the adult price of £355, a massive 90% discount, and for children aged 7 and under it's £15 so an even more generous discount. Remember this is for a whole season's entertainment of course. Another example is The Helicopter Museum, Weston-super-Mare. They offer discounts for children plus family tickets per figures below. We all know preserved railways offer discounted fares for juniors or family tickets yet charter trains of all kinds offer only what we've discussed already, with RTC the only Promoter making a serious effort in this area.

Adults - £6.00
Children (4-15) - £4.50
Family (2 Adults & 2 Children) - £17.00
Family (2 Adults & 3 Children) - £19.00
Senior Citizens - £5.00


Another opportunity also missed seemingly is discounts for groups. Where these are offered they are either derisory or virtually require you to form your own army to benefit.

It just seems like a lot of tour promoter bosses can't see the bigger picture beyond the £ signs in their eyes. No doubt I'll be raising the blood temperature of many writing this but I do feel passionately about this, and some of us really do need to withdraw head from sand on this issue !​

 

Not an unreasonable supposition but we seem to live in a child centric world where the little darlings are welcomed everywhere. If the price keeps the kids away then I'm all for it.

 

But what if the facility to upgrade or enjoy a buffet meal was advertised? I can remember SLOA, in the early 1980's promoting their 'tray meals' and they were very well received. you had to order and pay when booking.

 

Isn't that basically what SRPS do these days?

Regarding the catering, there's very little spare space available in a Mk 1 kitchen as it is. If you're already serving 3 or 4 coaches worth of diners, there'll be no spare capacity, so you would have to use another kitchen to dopay on the day meals. This in turn means there are fewer seats available.

Like Ralph says, there's a lot of prep work involved. When I used to do the buffet on the Torbay Expresses, I'd pick up a hired van on Friday or Saturday, collect the supplies from the caterers' stores, then drive down to Bristol and load the train up. Bearing in mind the stock was stabled in the centre road at Temple Meads, it wasn't a lot of fun! On the plus side, it was a good day out, the passengers enjoyed it, and the buffet could easily take a four-figure sum.

 

What an attitude !

Ralph, you make the same mistake of so many attached to the current scene, that things will stay the same forever. You describe how things are now and present it as an obvious barrier to change and development. By the time you realise the time time for change has come it'll likely be too late. Maybe change = threat ?

You seem to represent a bad attitude in the railtour world, and one, I have to say sadly, that is not unrecognisable from my pwn on board experiences, I.e. "this is how it is", "take it or leave it", and "if you don't like it there's the door" ! Is it any wonder then you are able to say that nobody has suggested any variation in the services currently offered ! They're probably too nervous even to ask which direction to walk for the buffet !

The fact somebody from First or Standard hasn't suggested the idea of a "pay on the day" meals service doesn't mean it wouldn't be welcomed if it were offered / introduced. The reality is I only chose this idea for change as an example of how the railtour business could be developed, but it wouldn't matter what idea I proposed as you and some others already think the current scene has it all sewn up !

I used to work for Forte along with Nigel Dobbing of RTC so I certainly dont need any patronising lectures on the logistics of the Hotel and Catering business thanks all the same. Of course I know that the food preparation doesn't start when the kitchen staff get on board, and my suggestion wouldn't make that necessary, nor do I imply I believe it would be.

You define the Premier, First and Standard class client base for steam tours as if it's set in stone. I've got news for you, it isn't. Maybe you haven't noticed what's going on at VT where they clearly believe in flair, innovation and marketing, and are now offering hot food to order ! In contrast they understand the value of marketing and don't view their potential future customers using a "set in stone" style "tick box" method of categorisation a la "RalphW" !

 

A short but true business mantra: If you always do what you always did you'll always get what you always got.

 

Er, hello, I assume you were a child once ?

Children are our future rail tour passengers and preservationists so let's not alienate them eh ?

 

Amen to that. Oakfield appears to be providing the antidote to the "what's going on" forum madness more and more often just lately. Thanks goodness for his common sense !

 

there is another mantra of course : "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Perhaps the success of dining class is such that operators see no need to make changes. Not that I have any interest in dining class as fine dining is not the reason I book on a steam tour.

 

Answer

I think I've covered the prep work question, and my idea would be for a simpler meals service with a much simpler "mise en Place" !

 

first of all i came on here to see 'tours cancelled' post but i see we are on about on-board catering and i see also we are having abit of a hoo-hah and ruffled feathers and toys being thrown a wee bit in the ensuing food dramas lol!

may i say that i do have some experience of tours both sitting behind the table cloth eating the normally nice food and in the organisations that provide your steam trains...

as mentioned you have your 3 main groups (classes) and from what i read above the chap is correct.
premiers want great traditional grub and many but not all are not too worried about the name of the engine nor how many wheels it has as long as it boils water.
firsts want nice seats and bring a hamper.
standards want value for money, many are on a budget and will use the buffet car if needed or bring a picnic.

the poster who suggests pay on board, chicken microwave ding meals ala easyjet or thomson airways...well, we have problems here...

firstly space and capacity, plus there is little way you can get the ac power to power microwaves reliably and where are we supposed to put those and prepare them,
then there is the purchasing amounts, how many do you order and is the quality any good for pre-cooked meals. imho they are not cost effective at all.
who serves them?
it is a good fair and interesting suggestion but something which really is not for steam train excursions.

the products out there now are good, the punters like it, they have a choice and come back for more...
you mess around with a good traditional product (like what the airlines have all done all too much now) and you are buggered.

 

Response

100% agree with you about the SSE. It provides choice, flexibility, scenery and all at a reasonable price with sociable timings. Definitely a good starting point. Lets hope this concept can be developed further in future.