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Traws Link Cymru - threat to the Gwili?

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by Felix Holt, Mar 12, 2014.

  1. MarkinDurham

    MarkinDurham Member

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    Oh dear...
     
  2. GWR Man.

    GWR Man. Well-Known Member

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    Where did you get this information from then, as I said it was sold to the local authorities where they wanted the old trackbed and, many other stretches were sold of to the adjoining land owners who in many cases had the first refusal to acquire the old trackbed as this clause was written in when the land was sold to build the railway in the first place.
     
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  3. Matt78

    Matt78 Well-Known Member

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    @Martin Adalar - surely the issue before is whether a new rail line will remove traffic from the roads. There are several issues around this, one of which being in an area of an elderly and dense population, anyone over 60 will have a free bus pass. If that’s the case then the scope for locals using the line is much more limited and it’s primary use is going to be as a through route. There is further empirical evidence for this in that most rail traffic in West Wales is centred around principle stations such asCarmarthen and Llanelli as opposed to the smaller stations en route. There is no reason to think that the Carmarthen to Aber line would be different.

    Land aquisition costs remain low for this project because a) most of the route is intact and b) runs through rural countryside. There are high costs associated with the engineering of the line, because of the topography of the route. The Gwili section for example is well engineered but there are 8 crossings of the river. Tregaron Bog is highlightd as a major issue in the recent report. The isolated nature of the line means it really must be a “do it once, do it right” project. Lightweight trains have been mooted but this hasn’t really been pioneered elsewhere in the UK and the though route aspect would in any case be lost.

    Regards

    Matt

    (A Gwili supporter with nothing better to do on a Sunday afternoon ☺️)
     
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  4. Greenway

    Greenway Part of the furniture

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    This might well be another political hot potato rather like the Dartmoor diversion. The existing mainline network is under many pressures, not least financial ones. Seems to me to be more sense to maintain what exists than spend large sums on some folk see as vanity projects.
     
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  5. 35B

    35B Resident of Nat Pres

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    Try considering why construction is expensive and where the costs in the feasibility report sit. Then look at the ratio of costs to benefits, and ask how that gap will be bridged. While doing so, think about the options already looked at to minimise costs.

    There may be a case for a north south railway in Wales, though I note the Victorians never tried it. But I suggest those making the case need to engage with facts and make the case in light of them, not wish them away and pretend they don’t exist.

    Meanwhile, I’ll take your postings considerably more seriously if you come out from behind your anonymity.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
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  6. simon

    simon Part of the furniture

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    Fact checking, not your strong suit i guess.
     
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  7. Forestpines

    Forestpines Part of the furniture

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    Partly this is down to the history of Wales as a country. Welsh nationalism was not a significant force in the railway-building period, so the idea of building a north-south line, within Wales, so that Wales as an entity could be improved, would have seemed like a strange one. This is also why the north-south links that were built go to centres of traffic regardless of which side of the border they are: Newport-Hereford-Shrewsbury; Brecon-Oswestry; Swansea-Shrewsbury; and of course the Carmarthen-Aberystwyth line was originally the Manchester & Milford, connecting up via Oswestry and Chester.

    (As an aside it's worth noting that so far in Welsh history the longest-lived administrative body responsible specifically for the whole of Wales, the Council of Wales, which lasted just over 200 years, was based in Ludlow)
     
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  8. jnc

    jnc Well-Known Member

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    I suspect the OP was being sarcastic.

    Noel
     
  9. Matt78

    Matt78 Well-Known Member

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    In fairness it’s not easy to tell....
     
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  10. MarkinDurham

    MarkinDurham Member

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    I admire your optimism... :)
     
  11. Steve

    Steve Part of the furniture Friend

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    You are right that there is an awful lot of rubbish spoken on this site and your post is a prime example. Whether you are trolling or stating your genuine opinion you are not doing it very well.
     
  12. gwilialan

    gwilialan Part of the furniture

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    Quite simply because the busses serve the remoter villages that the proposed line will ignore. If anyone currently using the bus from these villages wants to use the train they will have to travel to their nearest station. That is putting more traffic on rural country roads (the majority of which are not gritted in winter).

    Having worked through some of the coldest and wettest winters in recent times from 2012 through t0 2016 clearing 40 odd years worth of uncontrolled growth and tracklaying on what is now the Abergwili extension I find your comment " ...some little hobby railway project.. " quite offensive.

    I note you don't volunteer, I wonder if you ever have? Perhaps if you had you might have gained some understanding of the effort needed to actually run a heritage railway.
     
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  13. jamesd

    jamesd New Member

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    There is likely to be a not insignificant amount of people that need to travel North - South regularly, this line however wouldn’t be a lot of help to them. As an example I live in Llanharan and travel to Mid and North Wales regularly with work. Even if I was travelling to Aberystwyth I wouldn’t use the train unless it was dramatically speeded up. Llanharan to Carmarthen by train currently takes between 1h 57m and 2h 35m. Add to that 1h 20m for the trip to Aberystwyth makes the journey time at least 3h 20m excluding any waiting time at Carmarthen. By comparison, I can get to Aberystwyth by car for a 10am meeting by leaving my house at 7:45, at least 1 hour quicker.

    That’s assuming I was travelling to Aber. Anywhere else in North or Mid Wales won’t benefit from this line at all as you simply end up in Aber and would then be relying on the Cambrian either East or a North to get you anywhere else. That’s not necessarily a reason to not build it, but it is a key consideration.

    I’d like to see the line rebuilt just to savour the occasional steam special tackling Trawsgoed bank but if I were the Welsh Gov transport Minister, I would dual the A470, that would be far more beneficial.
     
  14. Matt78

    Matt78 Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely. I’ve been involved with the Gwili for 30 years this year. I can’t remember at what point it stopped being a hobby for me but may have been some time around 2001....

    Regards

    Matt
     
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  15. arthur maunsell

    arthur maunsell New Member

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    Oh dear what has this come to? It seems obvious to me such a line wouldn't be a threat , rather it would be an income stream for the Gwlii to have a service running over it's line and an opportunity to expand their operations at little cost.
    The scheme is unlikely to come to fruition anyway due to the extreme rural location. Contrary to the impression given here, the roads in that location are pleasantly quiet and there would be few passengers wishing to go from Carmarthen to Aberystwyth, The line through Craven Arms already serves the people who wish to go further north, and there's not exactly hundreds of them
     
  16. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Part of the furniture

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  17. gwilialan

    gwilialan Part of the furniture

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    You've missed one of the main points in the report which was that the Gwili and the reopened line could not co-exist. If the line was reopened there is no acceptable alternative route other than what is currently occupied by the Gwili and therefore the Gwili would have to go. :(

    (Wonder if anyone supporting the introduction of a scheduled service linking Taunton to Minehead alongside the WSR has read those comments?)
     
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  18. jamesd

    jamesd New Member

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    Interesting, thank you. I think George Monbiot lives in Machynlleth so probably spends a lot of his time on the Cambrian line! The line mentioned in that article would be more useful, but I suspect a lot more expensive than the Aber- Carmarthen line would be.
     
  19. jnc

    jnc Well-Known Member

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    Well, the comments were so outlandish I assumed they had to be not serious. But now that I look closer (e.g. the identity of the poster), maybe not...

    Noel
     
  20. Martin Adalar

    Martin Adalar New Member

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    The government are very reluctant to open any local rail service and where lines do reopen it is for the benefit of through passengers and never for local ones so this perceived lack of of local demand is surely not a problem. I have nothing against the Gwilli railway and would not like to see it close but i it was a choice between that and a proper passenger carrying railway then it would have go i am afraid.
    If there is no demand for rail then i don't understand why Jamesd thinks it might be worth while dialling the A470, he is obviously not a train traveller.
     

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