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UP 4014

Discussion in 'International Heritage Railways/Tramways' started by athelney, Jul 23, 2013.

  1. guycarr360

    guycarr360 Member

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    Recent FB chatter that the complete loco, less tender has been spotted outside the workshops, between xmas and new year.

    Whether systems testing is about to start don't know, always a sceptical about FB, but seems a decent source.
     
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  2. guycarr360

    guycarr360 Member

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    Have just joined the UP Steam FB closed group, and some interesting pieces come up.

    1. It seems May is definitely still on, a video update is imminent.
    2. Those hoping for a ride behind her, will be disappointed, it seems any tickets for an excursion, are firstly offered to UP freight customers, very few get through to "fans".
    3. A US Steam "fan", best bet is to chase it, getting a ride behind it is seen as a lottery win.

    Suppose we should be thankful for what we get in the UK!!!!
     
  3. guycarr360

    guycarr360 Member

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    This has been posted on Friday, with further news that hydraulic testing of the boiler is imminent.

    Source is a well known supporter of UP, but as always treat it with a amount of suspicion...
     

    Attached Files:

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  4. Sheff

    Sheff Well-Known Member

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    Plse can you post a link to the FB page? Ta
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019
  5. guycarr360

    guycarr360 Member

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    Hi @Sheff its a FB page you have to subscribe to, cannot do a post here, as it will block, will Pm you the link if you want???
     
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  6. guycarr360

    guycarr360 Member

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  7. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    A question that's bubbling away in my mind about this restoration: as I recall, the loco is being converted to oil firing. How do you maintain firebox temperature when the need for firing stops, so as to avoid thermal shocks to the firebox? On a coal fired engine, the burning coal has a high thermal mass (and is, or should be, also in direct contact withe the firebox walls). So when you shut the regulator and reduce the draft, the combustion rate diminishes but the firebox temperature (and specifically the firebed temperature) only changes fairly slowly.

    What helps maintain the temperature in a large oil fired loco like this? Is it just a question of maintaining residual flow of fuel, or is the firebox grate packed with firebrick, or what?

    Tom
     
  8. guycarr360

    guycarr360 Member

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    They must have it sorted, as 844, and 3985, both use the same grade of fuel, without issue, remember when they start from cold, they preheat the boiler for 24 hours with progressively hotter water, until they introduce fire.

    If you watch any of the on board video's, you will see the fireman (stoker...), continuously adjusting the fuel valves, and you never really see the UP fleet blowing off, as the oil allows them to control fire temperature better, by the looks of things.

    Can ask the question on the UP closed group if you want????
     
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  9. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    If you can - it would be nice at least to have a good description of the oil firing system (even if it is in the context of one of the other locos).

    Tom
     
  10. marshall5

    marshall5 Member

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    As Tom surmises the lower part of the firebox and firepan is lined with firebrick which retains a lot of heat. I have only footplated a couple of oil burners and don't remember the oil ever being turned off, just adjusted up and down according to demand. There was a lot of communication between the engineer and fireman such as "3 down" before partially closing the throttle and the fireman would respond by moving the firing valve down by 3 notches. Failure to reduce the oil flow would result in a lot of black smoke from the 'stack' and flames from the firepan. I believe it is possible to pull the fire 'out' with a heavy slip... Coal firing is much easier!
    Ray.
     
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  11. guycarr360

    guycarr360 Member

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    Replies to date are as follows :- Each line is a separate reply.

    The firebox is modified as the firebox grate as far as I know has been donated to either C&O 1302 being restored or the locomotive just being moved to be restored in Nashville Tennessee.

    I'm not an expert, but I'd imagine it's a continuous flow of fuel. Just like a coal fire, they don't turn it off and on. Remember, it's about maintaining the head of steam, which, even at idle, requires a continuous input of water and heat. So, while the fuel feed may very based on throttle needs, it wouldn't shut off until they're done for the day. And, I hope they would be smart enough to have a steam generator to maintain steam overnight for consecutive operating days to reduce thermal shock without using up operating days.

    The oil fired fireboxes are brick lined I believe which equates to alot of thermal mass...

    It takes many hours to bring a steam locomotive to temperature.

    More as I see them.
     
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  12. marshall5

    marshall5 Member

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    There's an echo around here, LOL
    Ray.
     
  13. guycarr360

    guycarr360 Member

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    Been told this is the definitive youtube video to watch Tom

     
  14. Jamessquared

    Jamessquared Nat Pres stalwart

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    Thanks for that - a good watch. Would like to see the lighting up procedure ...

    Tom
     
  15. guycarr360

    guycarr360 Member

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    Have seen that as well, basically 24 hours running progressively hotter water around the boiler, before they light the oil burner, will see if I can search it out.
     
  16. Ploughman

    Ploughman Well-Known Member

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    I see that the Big Boy is to get its Hydraulic test according to the earlier post.
    my query is, Has it had a retube? Not noted any mention of one.
    Just wondering if overhaul standards are a bit different either side of the pond.
     
  17. PC5020

    PC5020 New Member

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    I cannot imagine it not being retubed. They are doing a really deep and complete rebuild on the engine. Remember the 844 had a tube leak and scalded some
    crew members in the cab. Out of spec tube material at fault. Obvious liability issues on this and I'm sure that UP wanted an overhaul that would give them the
    greatest possible chance of no accidents as well as no public black eye due to mechanical delays once in service again.
    It is amazing that this has come to pass.
     
  18. guycarr360

    guycarr360 Member

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    Full retube, and in video online tonight from UP, confirms the boiler being brought up to temperature with hot water, for the first time in 60 years.

    Test pressure will be 450psi.
     
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  19. marshall5

    marshall5 Member

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    In the U.S. the hydraulic test is carried out using warm water for which a minimum temp. is specified.
    Ray.
     
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  20. Dag Bonnedal

    Dag Bonnedal New Member

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    Not only in the US. In many countries this is the standard procedure and this for good reasons. The steel is more brittle at low temperatures and pressing the boiler to high pressures in that state does damage the boiler.
    Usually temperatures around 50 deg. C is used. This is high enough to make the steel less brittle and low enough to avoid scalding if something bursts.
    When we had a boiler repaired in the UK a few years ago we specified this procedure and the British boiler inspector had no problems with it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2019
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