Use of the Definite Article, ex FS thread.

Hello,
Lots of people say The Thames where Thames is a name.


Other places aswell !

Nick

 

I think in certain usage, the definite article replaces the noun of the thing being named, i.e. The [river] Thames, The [steamship] Mauretania, The High [Street], The [locomotive] Rocket, etc.
But more familiarity with the object in question means the noun (and hence the definite article) gets dropped - hence seamen not saying "the Britannic" and railway enthusiasts not saying "the Tornado".
Thats my conjecture, anyway!

 

Only by landlubbers and of course the press. Mariners leave out the definitive article when referring to their vessels. It was a pet hate (one of many!) of my father who sailed as an apprentice on one of Ericson's four masted barques, Viking (not "the Viking") around Cape Horn in 1938.

Captain Arthur Rostrom of Carpathia was much praised for rescuing the survivors from the Titanic disaster - in this instance "the" refers to the disaster not the ship.

Peter

 

I got in car to go to work this morning rather then use bus

 

No difficulties in Russian as they have no articles. That's why Russians speaking English so often miss them out; they don't know which to employ.

 

Just a minor point - does the thread relate to the definite article, or a definitive article? If the latter, why are we discussing whether or not to put "the" in front of locomotive names?

 

From memory all warships were as named except for nicknames eg the raving J or the drinkin stinkin Lincoln ( a diesel ship as it happened ) but Ark Royal was always refered to as the Ark iirc

 

It's laziness in part and abbreviation in another. If written properly the statement(s) should read The (locomotive named) Flying Scotsman; The (locomotive named) Tornado; The (locomotive named) Royal Scot etc. The problem is that some locomotives are named in association with the trains that they hauled hence adding to the confusion. In fairness I believe that 60103 was named Flying Scotsman to be associated with that named train whilst the Royal Scots were built to work the Anglo-Scots expresses, including "The Royal Scot", hence the naming of the first locomotive after one of the train services that it would operate.

 

...and now we have the media referring to "the HMS Bulwark" or whatever ship it is. So they are effectively saying "the Her Majesty's Ship Bulwark." Dat's good English!!!!!

Best nicknames IMHO were 'Cherry B' & 'Herpes.' BTW, I assume the 'Raving J' must be a sister of the 'Cherry B.'

 

Jupiter and Charybdis?? If so, I think you're right. Both Leander Class frigates, iirc

 

The odd usage that's always struck me is that baby is frequently used without an article : give baby dinner, change baby etc.

 

The raving J I knew was Juno, a Leander so named after an incident. There was also the county class destroyer the Glamorousorgan, and I did two stints on the Dimweed

 

Juno - of course. I spent many happy hours on assorted Leanders whilst participating in RPCs down in the Falklands, 1983-86. My ship was a Base Support Tanker for the military. The Leanders always seemed to have the biggest party animal crowds - work hard then play hard was probably the rule, as I understood that life 'down below' could be "interesting" at times . Happy days!

 

Deleted - double post

 

No, Martin - the "Scottish Eagle" - the biggest bird to be STUFT* in the Falklands!

*Ship Taken Up From Trade...

 

Was Prince not actually "The Prince" originally (as in "The" was on the nameplates)?

 

Yes 'Prince' and 'Princess' were originally named 'The Prince' and 'The Princess'. Not sure when they lost the 'The'.

 

Cringeworthy as it is when the definite article is added to the name of a locomotive, it gets a whole lot worse when the sloppy journalist then tries to show off their knowledge of 'railway terminology'. How often have we seen stuff like 'stoke the furnace and it's full steam ahead'? Sheesh....

 

See also the recent coverage of the royal reopening of the Waverley Route in which BBC viewers were treated to the announcement that No.9 was 'revving its engines'.