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Vale of Berkeley Railway

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by Sidmouth, Sep 2, 2015.

  1. Sawdust

    Sawdust Member

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    Quite a bit of the NYMR has been relaid twice during the heritage era and all of it at least once, as I'm sure my learned friends in pway will confirm. I can think of at least half a dozen bridges that have been replaced too.

    Sawdust.
     
  2. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    Nail hit very firmly on head.
    Since the beginning of the preservation movement there have been those only too willing to say "it can't be done," "you're doing it the wrong way," "this or that shouldn't be done" and Paul is just following on in the same mode. Time and time again the heritage movement has confounded the "experts" with what it has achieved and will continue to confound them for some time yet no doubt.
    Interestingly the two railways of which Paul seemingly approves are those with which has has/had a close association. Both have built extensions even though extensions are supposed to be a bad thing.
    Both use motive power and/or rolling stock that never ran on them in their previous incarnations even though authenticity is supposed to be paramount. Both lines have done what they feel are the right things to grow and survive and currently seem to be doing a good job of it but the same can be said of other lines/projects that have taken a different approach. Only time will tell which is the best recipe for long term survival but the advantage the doom mongers have is the fact that if you predict disaster often enough, the law of averages dictates that one day your prediction will come true. None of us know what will happen in 10, 20, 30 years time and we could be in for a surprise or two, good or bad, and maybe from a direction we least expect.
     
  3. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    And as been pointed out elsewhere in this thread, others are on their way. P2 and Patriot being the next two in all probability.
     
  4. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    And nobody is going to build a new boiler until they have to.
     
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  5. Peter Hall

    Peter Hall Guest

    Valid point.

    I actually saw quite a detailed analysis by one of the larger heritage railways not so long ago on this. Their analysis was that the number of bus pass holding volunteers was increasing. However, they were tending to become available at a later age and consequently their years of productive volunteering were less. Later retirement ages and the never had it so go bus-pass holders' spending the kids inheritance before volunteering were given as possible reasons. Another senior heritage railway official told me that if it was not for such volunteers leaving us legacies our finances would be in a worse state than they already are.

    However, if you look back to 1950's, 1960's & 1970's the bus-pass volunteers were at least matched, if not well out numbered, by volunteers in the late teens to early 30's. This is no longer the case and it was these volunteers that had the energy and stamina to do endless hours of hard graft whilst getting a few hours kip in a carriage compartment every weekend. Those youthful volunteers of the past are now bus-pass holders or soon will be.

    We are also about to hit the great divide in enthusiasts coming up for bus pass qualification. Are the generation that have few or no recollections of regular steam working on BR going to so inclined to become volunteers on heritage railways that are hot really rekindling their youthful memories? Time will tell.
     
  6. 6024KEI

    6024KEI Member

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    I think the concern is a fair one but there are pockets where the trend is being bucked - as I understand it the team that overhauled 4144 at Didcot was largely under 30 and there are plans afoot to create a young volunteers programme designed to train up under 18's across the board so that when they are able to be adult volunteers they have some training and also have been introduced to the various departments so they can make an informed choice. That I think is based on the programme at Swanage so that's another one - and I'd be very surprised if other lines weren't putting similar things in place. It may well be that as a movement we need to be more organised and purposeful about bringing youngsters through but with current health and safety regs its probably not a bad thing that we aren't letting kids loose with heavy machinery without a proper training programme.
     
  7. 61624

    61624 Part of the furniture

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    I think most railways have recognised the need to nurture junior volunteers as being the next generation to run the line - the NYMR has a thriving junior group as well as the others mentioned.

    Where Paul Hitch's argument falls to the ground is that in reality most heritage lines are still open 30-40 years on, and are still running with steam. The number of restored "hen hutches" increases year on year, to the point where the supply of donor underframes has been exhausted and new-build examples will be needed before long, and the Mk 1 fleet is probably stable nowadays. To my eye, even the quantity and quality of goods wagon restoration is increasing, and as time goes by more and more covered accommodation for these restorations is being built where it previously didn't exist. If Paul was right we should be seeing ever lengthening queues of locos awaiting new boilers and sidings filling with demic rolling stock - but I don't see that and who would deny that the range and extent of both boiler and mechanical repairs is increasing all the time - new cylinder blocks, new frames and so on - in the early days thin tyres were enough to write a loco off as a poor restoration candidate. Much of the demic stuff was like that when it arrived rather than being used and withdrawn and sidings are actually starting to empty because of progress with restoration. On the NYMR, Thompson CK 18477, which hasn't run since n traffic since 1972, is the latest to see the start of restoration, and the long siding at Pickering is as full as it has ever been it is as a result of further projects arriving to replace vehicles that have left following restoration.

    Like any field there may be odd exceptions to the general rule, but on the whole I can only see evidence of progress rather than retrenchment and failure.
     
  8. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    Indeed so, I drove it regularly. A classic example of the right sized machine for the job in hand.

    PH
     
  9. Kinghambranch

    Kinghambranch Well-Known Member

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    Just like 82045 will be for standard gauge heritage lines.
     
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  10. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    A 2' gauge loco on a 2' gauge line. Nothing remarkable about that no matter how nice the loco.
     
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  11. andrewshimmin

    andrewshimmin Well-Known Member

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    I think Paul's point is that Kew aren't running an NGG16, which is the 2' gauge equivalent of what many SG lines are doing.
     
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  12. Spamcan81

    Spamcan81 Nat Pres stalwart

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    And that's because many SG lines didn't have much choice when it came to rescuing locos from Barry but we've been over that many times.
     
  13. Peter Hall

    Peter Hall Guest

    It really depends who has bent your ear and who has not. My ear has been bent by more than one person and I fully understood where they were coming from as I often hear similar. What usually happens is though that those that are not happy either quietly disappear or cause a 'stink' and perhaps get their way and if not noisily disappear. Recent departures suggest some are disappearing quietly, some more noisily, to the benefit of the Vale of Berkeley in a similar way as to the Stratford & Broadway before it.
     
  14. Steve

    Steve Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    There is no logic in building a new boiler when you already have one unless it comes down to cost. When it becomes cheaper to build anew, loco owners will start to do this. It isn't rocket science, it's pure economics. At Middleton, we have had three new boilers built in the last 17 years. Relatively small, maybe but they were new because the economics dictated it. Other boilers we have simply repaired, again because the economics dictated that was the best overall solution.
    New boilers are/were being built for the A1, P2, G5 & Patriot simply because they don't have them. There is no problem in building boilers, both in the UK and abroad and that includes traditional and modern technologies.
     
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  15. Gav106

    Gav106 Well-Known Member

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    I think quite honestly I am bored of PH changing his mind every time for an argument. First it was "no boilers have been built in the UK" and yet ours is coming along very nicely and should be complete in 9 months. Now your argument is no replacements have been made. I can bring you back to 61264s boiler that is nearly a complete replacement. And the next argument is "xx hasn't been replaced yet" .... Well maybe that's because it doesn't need to be yet or its in a queue to be done at a later date. There is nothing on a loco that can't be replaced. I know of 2 GWR locos that are due to have replacement cylinders. There are 2 black 5s having replacement cylinders (one already completed) and a lot more cylinders being replaced. Then the next argument is that track needs replacing. But again.. Loads of railways have replaced track. Next its bridges need replacing and yet again preservation has achieved that. Entire embankments have been replaced, cuttings dug out. Bridges over rivers such as the Strathspay completed. I really fail to see what you are getting at. No one is saying it's easy, but come on let's for one second look at what has been achieved and say well we have done a pretty good job so far!
     
  16. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    And I am bored by people traducing what I have actually said. It is the classic technique of misquoting what someone says and then attacking the misquote. Politicians stuff! Makes me wonder whether things are actually worse than I thought they were

    Never even mentioned cylinders (these have been replaced on narrow gauge tourist lines literally for decades).

    PH
     
  17. Platform 3

    Platform 3 Member

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    So what did you say Paul?
     
  18. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    Just go back and see! (ignore what people said I said)

    PH
     
  19. Platform 3

    Platform 3 Member

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    When discussing standard gauge preservation you said "we will see how "thriving" it is when rail has to be replaces and the boilers run out". You then said "the biggest boiler which has actually been replaced (or rather is being replaced) is on a 2ft. Gauge Garratt. Otherwise nothing bigger than an A1X". You have had pointed out that rail (and bridges) have been replaced in considerable quantities, that new main line boilers have been and are being built. How have people got your argument wrong?
     
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  20. paulhitch

    paulhitch Guest

    A number of the "usual suspects" (too busy indignating I am afraid)

    Bye bye

    P H
     

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