Vintage Trains 2025

Big Al · Jul 8, 2025 at 6:48 PM

1020 Shireman said: ↑

Well, as we did go and we timers can't resist timing, I've put together a report with times that we tried to make sense of. Can't say we succeeded but this is how our day went.

The Cathedral Express to Swansea 5th July 2025: or

Three go to El Pescador

We're not great fans of Swansea as a destination but my fellow timer John found a very interesting sounding Spanish Restaurant that specialises in Fish Dishes. We love fish so decided to go there to make the Cathedrals Express worth travelling on. We're not fans of Vintage Trains' 'normal running' as the diesel on the rear does assist steam haulage more than we'd like during the day. Would have preferred a Castle but we have a soft spot for Bahamas. The Shap Mountaineer was a superb train. We decided to go find Worcestershire Parkway, only 47 miles from home so we could take our electric Corsa. Easy to find as only a couple of miles from M5 Jn7 and we got there in under an hour. At 0800 the car park was filling well. We looked for the Pay Machines - there was only 1. Most folk seemed to be regular users of the station and used the phone app. A positive was the daily charge was only £4.20.

A drinks trailer was there and we had a decent coffee while we waited for the train. A few friendly stewards were there to chat to. Alan, told us that Coach F where our 4+4 was located, was last but one carriage. Our friends who we usually travel with had gone semi-posh in the First Class Carriage that we dislike. Not a well restored carriage. The seats are too uncomfortable to spend a day on. Typically Alan told us it was behind the POB. Not that bothered as it wasn't a proper steam hauled train.

The Outward Run

The immaculate 45596 drew the train in a few minutes late. The train consist was GUV (Water Carrier); Mk2 Corridor POB; Mk1 First Open; Pullman Saloon; Pullman Kitchen/Saloon; Pullman Eagle; Mk1 Small Buffet; Mk1 Corridor Brake; 3xMk2 TSOs. Tare weight of the GUV + Carriages was 405 tons. 37240 added a further 102 tons ish. Total Weight not including passengers was 507 tons. FYI the maximum load in NR's Guidelines for 45596 as a Class 6, including a water carrier and 'dead' diesel on the rear, is 396 tons. 37240 wasn't there for show but to be powered up to assist when considered necessary. Past experience of VT's trains has shown that means assistance to get the train to line speed; assist over any significant gradients; and assist to keep to time. Things were further complicated today by the train running under NR's Amber Fire Risk level that means the steam locomotive shouldn't be driven hard.

We joined the train and after a long blast on the Stanier Hooter, 45596 and 37240 slowly trundled us to Abbotswood Jn Loop where we waited for 3 service trains to pass. We were 3 mins down when we left for the run down to Cheltenham Spa.

The Abbotswood Jn to Cheltenham Spa became a favourite of ours in proper steam hauled days with 70-75 often attained for mile after mile on falling gradients. We were assisted out of the loop but after a shortish time it felt steam hauled as after the 2 miles of 301f we were only up to 62. Down the 3/4m of level/848f we got to 65 and then on the 2 1/2m of 385f to 76. Speed dipped on the level to pass Eckington at 73 and to 72 as we left the level. Oddly speed dropped to a low of 68 on the first 1/2m of 319f, then picked back up to 70 as we hit the next mile of 301f. Back to 74 and on the 3/4m of 311f to 76 as the Stanier hooter sounded long and loud through Ashchurch. 45596 seemed to be eased on the 297r, 68 and the brakes cut in quite hard on the 719f. No fast running after that and we were held short of the Spa station for the 4 minute late PAD-CNM terminating GWR Service to cross over from P2 into the loop. Explained the early braking. We dropped down into the station still 3 mins down and left 6 mins down. It had been quite a surprise to see the lineside more green than the yellow/brown expected. That was to be the case all day. There's a mile of 368f then 5 miles of 304f down to Barnwood Jn. We got to a max of 71 before the brakes kicked in rather early, some 2 miles from the junction. We arrived in Gloucester 6 mins down and left 5 mins down.

The Class 37 assisted up the short 99r out of the station and we passed mp114 3/4 at 36 as the gradient fell to a short bit of 130f. We passed Over Jn, a mile and a half out at 45 ish. On the level we got to 49 and up the 3/4m 22r to 51. Rapid pick up to 64 by mp118 on the mile+ of 335f. Over undulating not significant gradients 68 by mp120. Past Grange Court at 67 and took 70 onto the 1/2m of 264r to Newnham Tunnel. No mileposts to see but the brakes came in for some reason. We entered the tunnel at 57. Down 311f/316f to Bullo Dock, 62 and down 1/2m of 316f to the level at Awre Jn, 70. Mostly level and small falls in gradient for miles then and speed fell to 59 before picking up to 63 through Lydney. Nothing at the south end of the DFR. Got to 65 before the mile of 317r to Woolaston, 63.

Diana was disappointed on the estuary side of the train as the river was very low. The mud looked nice though!! The gradient kicks up to 186r at mp138 3/4 for 1/2m through the cutting to the tunnel. We hit 57 and could hear 45596 charging up the climb but just before mp140 the brakes kicked in and speed fell to 33 into Tutshill Tunnel (often called Chepstow Tunnel). We crossed the river bridge at 32 and worked through the station at 33. Thought there would have been a long blast on the hooter as it was an Anniversary, but no. Along the estuary it's just a bit undulating. We passed Caldicot at 46 and then joined the GWML just before Severn Tunnel Jn Station. Well assisted by 37240, we roared through it at 55, now 7 mins down, and joined the down main for the run to Newport. Undulating gradients, none significant.

We passed mp150, lev, at 63 and could hear 45596 being worked quite hard. On slightly falling gradients speed rose to 71 by Bishton Crossing, mp153. We ran at 70/71 to Lanwern, mp155,97f, 72 and held 72 until just before mp156 when the braked came in. We crossed the River Usk Viaduct at 21 and arrived in P1 at Newport only 1 minute down. Water was being taken and we had 40 minutes to while away. As it wasn't an official pickup point it wasn't worth the risk of going to the John Wallace Linton for a pint so I made the long walk to the footbridge to cross the P2 to get some pictures. First time I'd seen 45596 in Newport. The light was good as the sun was behind the clouds - yup, it was briefly.

We left 1 minute down with assistance from the 37240 up the 216r into Hillside Tunnel, 18 in; 32 out. Boring to be on the mostly level relief as it's only 60 mph. The weather looked more threatening. Rob, someone we've known casually since the 1980s, told us it had been wet for part of most days the past week so there was no risk of setting lineside fires. We got to 60 at Marshfield, mp163 3/4, level, 5 miles out; and did a max of 63 at mp166. Speed was allowed to fall to 38 over Rhymney River Bridge, close to mp168. We crossed Long Dyke Jn, level, at just over 8 mph and climbed up into the station making a bit of noise on the short 47r after a signal stop for a train coming off the Queen St viaduct. We trundled through the station, level, at 27, 3 mins down in light rain.

We passed Leckwith Rd Jn, mp171 1/4, 150f/lev, at 39 accelerating. Undulating gradients to St Fagan's LC, mp174 1/2,level, 66, then on 212r/752r to 68 a mile further. Doubt that was genuinely steam hauled. Heavier rain outside the city that persisted to Stormy. Just after mp176,752r,68 the brakes kicked in and speed fell to 16.5 at mp177. Brisk acceleration, 333r/lev for a mile, probably assisted, to 37 by mp177 1/4. Through Pensarn LC, mp178 1/2, level, 47.3 led us onto the mainly rising gradients, 156r/323r/169r/161r to Llantrisant (Pontyclun). 45596 slipped at least twice on the 3/4m of 323r yet speed still rose to 53.9 after the 1/2m of 169r. Lose interest when the Class 37 obviously assisted. We passed through the station at 60.

The next 2 1/2 miles to Llanharan is steeper, a bit of 183r then a mile and a half of 106r. Speed held around 60 all the way up the 106r. It was raining and we were undoubtedly assisted. On the easing 858r through the station speed topped out at 66. Downgrade then and we hit 73 on the 138f at mp185 before a firm brake application down the bank, 21/2m of 157f. Pencoed was in the middle, passed at 70. Max was 72. The brakes came on again as we hit the long level section to Bridgend, 56. The rails were very wet and it was raining which was a shame as we were about to tackle the climb to Stormy Summit. We heard the Jubilee roar as we crossed the River Bridge at 59. The mile and a bit of 132r starts there. We passed mp192 at 57.6; mp192 1/2 at 56.8. Then the gradient eased to 163r at mp192 3/4, 57.2. By mp193 1/2 speed had risen to 60.5, and just after mp194, 231r, to 62.6. That was the climbing summit. Not a chance it wasn't an assisted climb as it was way faster than any Class 8 climb we've experienced.

Downgrade then through Pyle, 73.6 and on to Margam Yard. The sad sight of the silent blast furnaces of Port Talbot Steelworks towered over the site. We passed through the Parkway Station, level, at 64.7, Baglan 67.5; Briton Ferry Station, level, 65.9 and on Neath approach the brakes kicked in for the 30 mph speed limit through the station on the tight curve, We were on time there. Less than 1/4m out of the station, at mp208 1/2, 158r/90r, the climb of Skewen Bank starts. This is a real highlight of proper steam hauled trains as the sound echoes around. From mp208 3/4 there's a mile+ of 99r. Speed fell to mp209, 29.8, where we heard the Class 37 kick in and assist 45596 in getting the heavy train up the bank. The gradient steepens to 88r at mp209 1/2, 36.4, and speed rose slowly to 38.4 through Skewen Station and to 41.4 at the end of it. Bit of relief, 1/4m of 143r saw speed at 48. It levelled off then into Skewen Tunnel, 50, then it's downgrade/level to mp213, 56.9. we crossed Landore Viaduct at 21; crossed Landore Jn at 21. There were a number of units in the sidings of the old Landore Depot. Bit of 250r/75r into the station, 13.1. we stopped at the buffers at 1247, right time.

The outward journey was why we don't travel with Vintage Trains very often. Way too heavy a train for the steam locomotive to handle; so assistance from every 'stop' and on the banks. That's Show Pony Steam to me.

John had done a bit of research and found what we love - a restaurant specialising in fish dishes in Swansea. It was El Pescador, a Spanish Restaurant, with an address one had to go find, Trawler Road, Marine Quarter. John had booked a table for 1400 as we were leaving Newport.

The highlight of the day

Google Maps said it was a mile from the station and should take 21 minutes. We just strolled down the High Street. Old pubs I knew had long closed and were boarded up. Nothing there to encourage one to tarry. Even a Brewery Pub only had Keg Ale. We followed the roads towards the Meridian Tower. We got to the Quay a bit early so stopped at a place that claimed to have Gower Brewery Beer. Only bottles but we had a Sunrise, a delicious pale ale. Onwards around the Basin to the restaurant where we arrived at 1400. John said he'd booked a table but it wasn't showing on their screen. We found out why. When the lady checked bookings by name and reference, due to human error caused by a swaying train, John had booked for the 12th!! Fortunately they had a table overlooking the Tawe Basin Marina available. Perfect.

The menu was weird as we were told we'd have to go online to find the fish dishes as they changed so often. We found them and opted for a Mussels Main Course for a middle of the table starter. Different sauce than the white wine based one we were used to, but it was excellent, as were the mussels. We had a strange wine - a Spanish Sauvignon Blanc. Didn't know there was such a thing. Very pleasant. For mains John had a baked large portion of Hake. Diana had a funny fish dish, lamb parcels. I chose a whole Sea Bream - love them but it did delay us as it was a 25 minute preparation to table fish. We had chips and new potatoes with to share. The 3 meals came together and one of the very professional staff unwrapped the sea bream and using 2 spoons took the head, tail and the skin off.

All 3 looked superb. We shared a taste of each and were seriously impressed by the tastes and textures. The sea bream was big, thick and beautifully fresh. A real treat to eat. John's hake was delicious and the lamb in a rich thick sauce was a bit special. A second bottle of wine was necessary. We just had ice cream for dessert, Di just vanilla ice cream; John and I had an Affagato - the same superb Vanilla Ice Cream with a piping hot espresso to pour onto it. Seriously delicious. We finished the second bottle of wine that I drank most of as I wasn't driving home and decided we'd better settle up. I thought there was a mistake as excluding the wine, it was only £104, £34.67 a head. The staff were friendly and very attentive so I happily included a decent tip. It was an all round excellent experience. Their 4*+ rating was appropriate. We might even go to Swansea again just to eat there.

With such excellent food at the destination it amazes us that people choose to eat on the train. There's no comparison in quality, service or cost.

The Return Run

Bit of drizzle on the way back from the basin but we arrived well before 37240 dragged the train in. Chatted to some friends of longstanding who like us now do a train like this one only occasionally. We do all the tours with no diesel involved but they are very small in number. The destinations VT travel are ones we've visited on proper steam hauled trains many times since the late 1980s so are really a disappointment now with the diesel assistance. This one 'as booked' was a Castle out of Swansea for the first time since 2007. We'd still have booked it if it had originally been advertised with 45596.

It was dry with a bit of sunshine when were nudged out of the station 4 minutes down. We came off Landore Viaduct at 40 and got to 48 on the 109f. Curiously speed dropped to 31.3 at the end of the 109f. Climbing Skewen Bank the 'shallow' side, we did pick up from 32 at the start of the mile+ of 106r to 36.5 at Llansamlet and then to 40 over the 1/2m+ of 91r. We heard 37240 as it growled away on the rear. We passed through Skewen Station at 50.2 on the 88r before the brakes kicked in for the run down to Neath, passed at 42.8. not much of interest to us as we passed Briton Ferry at 51 and Baglan at 59, both on the level. We were slowed before Port Talbot Parkway probably because we were close to the Milford-Manchester Service. Below 10 through the station we then accelerated away to pass Margam Yard, mp200 3/4, 440f, at 48.4.

More from the Class 37 then as we accelerated to 71 on the level over the next mile and to Margam Abbey, mp199 1/4, at 72. Reason for the assistance was to get to the beginning of the climb to Stormy at pace. Only 1/2m of 250r to start with but speed fell to 67.5. At Margam Moors Jn, mp199 1/2, the mile+ of 139r started. No mileposts so missed the 139r and 102r. Through Pyle where the gradient 'bounces', 94r/lev/79r we were still running at 63. We failed to spot the mileposts but we climbed past the beginning of Stormy Sidings, the climbing summit, at 59. Which of course we know was impossible for an unassisted 500 ton+ train behind 45596. The big Class 8s, The King, Duke, Blue Peter and Tornado never matched that with 75 tons or so lighter trains.

We slowed through Bridgend, 50, and after 2 miles on the level, got to 58. We left the level at mp187 1/2 at 58 and climbed the 157r through Pencoed, mp186 3/4, 53.7; passed mp185 1/2 where the gradient steepened a bit to 138r, at 52; then mp185 at 52.4; and ran through Llanharan Station, the 'summit', at 53. Then down the 2 1/2 miles of 106f/183f/379f to flash through (Llantrisant) Pontyclun, 181 1/2, at 76. All downgrade, 323f/156f to Pensarn LC, mp178 1/2, at 70; down to St Fagan's LC at 70; then Ely, mp174 1/2, level, 73. We approached Cardiff General slowly and saw lots of concertgoers queuing to get into the Principality Stadium for a concert by some old band from the '90s.

We drifted through the station at 18 and just outside it our planned non-stop run to Gloucester came to an end at a red signal. 2 minutes later we were away but on the relief not the booked Up Main. We crossed to the main and on the level got to 71 at mp162, with a max of 73 at mp161. Through Newport at 27 and out on the main. No significant gradients and mostly level track. Our max was 68 at Bishton Crossing. We passed Severn Tunnel Jn Station, mp148 3/4, level, at 40; then Caldicot, level, 49.2. All real interest in timing had gone by now as there were no challenging gradients but it would have been seriously hard to get to 69 between Portskewett and Chepstow mostly on the level with such a heavy train.

We drifted through Chepstow at 22.5; crossed the river bridge, mp141 05c, at 28.1 and climbed up the short 268r into Tutshill Tunnel, mp140 75c at 29. Long section of mainly falling gradients then where we spent the time digesting the running so far. Too much assistance for our liking but probably 'minimum' in the number of assisted miles as it wasn't a challenging day gradient wise. Through Lydney, mp133 1/2, level, at 57.3 then ran mainly on the level in the high 50s to Awre Jn, mp128 1/4, level, 59. We were 11 minutes down now but the timing of the Gloucester Water Stop should ensure a right time departure. There was an interesting 2 1/4 miles of 316r 1/4 mile after Awre, 59, to mp126. Our speed fell away slowly. We crossed Bullo Dock Viaduct, mp126 1/2, at 51; passed mp126, very close to the end of the 316r at 50. We ran down the short 311f into Newnham Tunnel at 56.8 then over the falling gradients for the next 5 miles ran in the mid to high 60s with a max of 68 at Grange Court. Bit undulating to Over Jn with a bit of 335r, 61 before the brakes came in and we drifted into Gloucester at 1912, some 14 minutes down.

Spent the time there talking to the friends and the crew. A large tanker was in the Horton Car Park. As we watched the tender slightly overfilling we noticed there were 4 overflow holes in the back. Only tender we've ever seen them on. As expected we were ready to leave right time. Went back to proper timing as it's an entertaining gradient profile to Cheltenham. 37240 assisted on the restart, 352r. 1/4m out there's 1 1/4m of 344r, started at 13, and left at Barnwood Jn at 30. We were then on the almost 5 miles of 304r. We passed mp92 at 33.4; mp91 at 44.4; mp90 at 51.1; mp89 at 53 and left it at mp88 at 48 as the brakes kicked in for the tight curve into Cheltenham Spa where we arrived 2 mins down. Not sure what 37240 did but not much noise from 45596 got back to us.

We left the Spa 3 minutes down and I decided to time the run to Worcestershire Parkway where we were leaving the train. Down the 3/4m of 322f to mp86, speed rose to 40.3. the gradient eased to 305f for just over 2 miles then. We crossed Morris Hill LC, mp85, at 57.2; Swindon Road LC, 84 1/4, at 64.6; and mp83 3/4, 305r/lev at 70.4. After a 1/4 of 689f, 72.3, we ran down almost 2 miles of 285r and passed mp83 at 73.7 and mp82 at 76.9. the 1/2m of 719r was dismissed at 77.9, a speed held for the next mile of 297f before a max of 78.5 at mp80. Bit of level then 97r into Ashchurch, 74.6 before a bit of a climb; 3/4m of 311r to mp79, 73.2 before a mile of 301r saw a fall to 68.5. Down a mile of 319f to mp76, 71.3 then 3 miles on the level, left at 70. 2m of 385r followed, midpoint 68.2; end at mp72 at 65.7. Missed a few posts then over insignificant 848r but got mp70 3/4, the start of the 2m+ of 301r, 63.9. We passed mp70 at 64.1; mp69 1/2 at 64.3; mp69 1/4 at 62.5 before being eased for the approach to Abbotswood Jn, crossed at 27. We rolled into the Parkway at 2039, 3 minutes down according to my GPS.

No doubt some fellow passengers will disagree with us on how much assistance 37240 gave 45596; but there can be no argument that the train was way too heavy for a Jubilee to haul.

It was OK for a day out. We were surprised at the very decent loading for a destination like Swansea. Pity the Air Show succumbed to low cloud and rain. The big plus was finding El Pescador and enjoying a superb meal there.

Thanks to VT for running the train and providing their excellent set of carriages; though it didn't qualify as 'Express Steam'. For what it's worth 37240 performed well apparently. The crews were top notch as always. Alistair drove the outward with his usual fireman, Sam; while Martyn drove on the return. Not sure who fired for him, but both firemen got through a fair bit of rather dusty coal. Oddly we didn't have a single smut on our tables in Coach F despite the toplights being virtually wide open all day. Thanks to the friendly stewards and guards who did excellent jobs.

Many thanks to the Bahamas Locomotive Society for the use of their immaculate locomotive. Just a pity is couldn't have run the train with a diesel following. Would have been fun to see what the loco could have done on Stormy and Skewen Banks with 400 tons on the drawbar.

Thanks to Network Rail for letting us run on the big railway. Train regulation was good all day.

As we weren't in a rush to drive home we stayed to watch the train leave. We were surprised at the big shove 37240 gave the train, and then seriously assisted the train away up the tracks towards Birmingham.

Our next train is the Mayflower at the beginning of September; then the Shap Mountaineer at the end of the month. Hopefully both proper Express Steam days out.

The electric Corsa was fine on the day. We started off with a range of 248 miles. We travelled 95 miles keeping to the speed limits and 'consumed' 137 miles of range. We only bought it as a runabout and that's why. Once we hit the motorways we only get 2.3 miles per kilowatt hour. The Corsa only has a usable 50 kwh. On the day over 75 miles of our journeys were at motorway speeds. No-one makes a small EV with bigger battery packs and we detest the look and size of SUVs. Hope they can develop small 85 kwh or so battery packs in the very near future.
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Thanks for taking the time (and money!) to travel and provide a comprehensive account of the day. I agree that Bahamas did what it could but was faced with the impossible to deal with on its own and there was also probably an instruction for the diesel to put in its fair share of work. That said, it seems that Bahamas made its presence felt so that was good.

It was also good to read an extended post in WGO about the trip and the performance of the motive power involved. I contrast it with a once-read extended narrative from the lineside that was more about the weather, the view and a feline than the passing of the train. There's a place for both of course, and why not, but this is WGO and that's really about the train and the experience.

RalphW · Jul 8, 2025 at 7:58 PM

It would be very boring to a lot of us if all we had was a list of speeds, times and the odd comment about whether the loco could be heard, I read the first few lines of the Cathedrals report then moved on. Just saying..

Big Al · Jul 8, 2025 at 8:02 PM

RalphW said: ↑

It would be very boring to a lot of us if all we had was a list of speeds, times and the odd comment about whether the loco could be heard, I read the first few lines of the Cathedrals report then moved on. Just saying..
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Yes, I get that completely. But there is a singular dearth of information about what these steam locos are actually DOING on the trains that are around at present. And into the void all manner of stuff has dropped. So the report by @1020 Shireman is a welcome attempt to rebalance.

Although given the current weather conditions and the behaviour of the TOC that shall remain nameless that may not change much anytime soon.

2857Harry · Jul 8, 2025 at 8:09 PM

RalphW said: ↑

It would be very boring to a lot of us if all we had was a list of speeds, times and the odd comment about whether the loco could be heard, I read the first few lines of the Cathedrals report then moved on. Just saying..
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Same. I got to the bit about the train being too much for a jubilee and switched off. Not really sure what people are expecting as the train has to pay its way, and as such needs the coaches it needs to make it pay.

Big Al · Jul 8, 2025 at 8:19 PM

2857Harry said: ↑

Same. I got to the bit about the train being too much for a jubilee and switched off. Not really sure what people are expecting as the train has to pay its way, and as such needs the coaches it needs to make it pay.
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So that makes two of you which is fine, of course. My concern is that this was a trip by VT that generally tries to do the right thing by all its customers including the enthusiasts.

I didn't touch this trip, even though I have never had steam into Swansea, because the weather made it highly likely that the diesel would have had to work to minimise risk from the front end, even though Bahamas is generally well behaved.

Nonetheless, even though it was a long read it was worth reading if that interests you. As I have said there is also stuff on WGO that I don't even skim because it is supposed to be about (mostly) steam charters.

(iron) Horses for courses.

30567 · Jul 8, 2025 at 9:11 PM

Big Al said: ↑

So that makes two of you which is fine, of course. My concern is that this was a trip by VT that generally tries to do the right thing by all its customers including the enthusiasts.

I didn't touch this trip, even though I have never had steam into Swansea, because the weather made it highly likely that the diesel would have had to work to minimise risk from the front end, even though Bahamas is generally well behaved.

Nonetheless, even though it was a long read it was worth reading if that interests you. As I have said there is also stuff on WGO that I don't even skim because it is supposed to be about (mostly) steam charters.

(iron) Horses for courses.
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But what is there to say really? Without inside knowledge you can't say for sure what the diesel is doing, though you can have an educated guess and maybe talk to the crew. So that leaves how many, three or four unassisted trains this year. Maybe we ought to run a sweepstake so one of us can go and report on a British Pullman run.

dublo6231 · Jul 8, 2025 at 9:55 PM

Nobody forces any one to read posts on this forum if they don't want to - in much the same vain that everyone is entitled to ones own opinion...
The trouble is the criticism of posts is often taken personally - so sometimes maybe things are better off unsaid...

I know which of the two makes for preferred reading (this is after all a forum that is supposed to be about the railtour itself) - and for that I thank 1020 Shireman for his in-depth analysis and write up of the tour that he traveled on.

Oswald T Wistle · Jul 8, 2025 at 10:03 PM

From personal experience I know just what a commitment it is to produce such a detailed report of a trip and am always pleased to read them, with or without a diesel, so thanks from me (but why no mention of a cat?)

In a perfect world all trips would be steam only, this year currently available stock and extreme weather have made such trips almost impossible to find. Previously a regular on WCRC and RTC trips I have decided that mk2s with unreliable air con in hot weather is not for me.

A trip on a Saphos trip to Edinburgh was cancelled, we have booked another for next week but because of the upcoming dry spell I fear that it may be diesel hauled. I’m undecided if I will produce a report, if I do it will not be as comprehensive as Graham’s and it may include mention of a cat, if this offends you then don’t read it.

I would gladly change from my lineside stories (with cat tails) and report on trips behind steam with or without a tail gunner but haven’t travelled on any. Many of us long for a bit of pure steam and mk1s but it is not widely available. I have high hopes for September’s Shap Mountaineer.

alastair · Jul 8, 2025 at 10:56 PM

2857Harry said: ↑

Same. I got to the bit about the train being too much for a jubilee and switched off. Not really sure what people are expecting as the train has to pay its way, and as such needs the coaches it needs to make it pay.
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I get what you say but I do wonder how less than 2 years ago it was apparently economic for RTC/WCRC to run an unassisted Bristol/Par "Duchy" with Bahamas and load 8? Apart from the absence of the Mark 1's and obviously the fire risk I do wonder what has changed.

TH Railway Videos · Jul 8, 2025 at 10:55 PM

alastair said: ↑

I get what you say but how come less than 2 years ago it was apparently economic for RTC/WCRC to run an unassisted Bristol/Par "Duchy" with Bahamas and load 8? Apart from the absence of the Mark 1's and obviously the fire risk I do wonder what has changed.
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I could be wrong but I think even 2 years ago the Royal Duchy fares were higher fares over the usual fares for other by RTC to make up for the shorter formation, even today the best for standard class is £149 (let’s not even mention how much Flying Scotsman’s Royal Duchy trip cost), I think they did the same with the last time The Welsh Mountaineer ran, cheapest fare was £165 standard class and that was running on a revenue earning 5 coach train

MellishR · Jul 9, 2025 at 7:24 AM

Big Al said: ↑

As I have said there is also stuff on WGO that I don't even skim because it is supposed to be about (mostly) steam charters.

(iron) Horses for courses.
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In practice yes, there are few mentions in this section of railtours (or light engine or ECS movements) without steam, but those do all belong quite appropriately under the WGO heading if someone cares to post about them. With the combination of WCRC's current choice of coaches and the fire risk I have not yet booked any steam trips this year but I have been on several with diesel power.

30567 · Jul 9, 2025 at 7:51 AM

alastair said: ↑

I get what you say but I do wonder how less than 2 years ago it was apparently economic for RTC/WCRC to run an unassisted Bristol/Par "Duchy" with Bahamas and load 8? Apart from the absence of the Mark 1's and obviously the fire risk I do wonder what has changed.
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Could it be that the combination of the two factors you mention plus rising costs/prices and diesel on the back syndrome has caused the market to shrink?

Enterprise · Jul 9, 2025 at 8:45 AM

Oswald T Wistle said: ↑

Previously a regular on WCRC and RTC trips I have decided that mk2s with unreliable air con in hot weather is not for me.
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My wife and I did only two RTC trips last year and we will do none this year unless things change. We decided to travel only on proper steam tours, that is Mk1s and no diesel. Our next steam trips are with British Pullman and VT. In the future, we might add travelling occasionally on tours hauled by selected vintage diesels, for example a Deltic or the Western. However, our options are likely to be limited by the familiar problems of poor paths and towing an unwanted 47 around.

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Vintage Trains 2025

Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

2857Harry Well-Known Member

Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

30567 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

dublo6231 Member

Oswald T Wistle Well-Known Member Friend

alastair Well-Known Member

TH Railway Videos Member

MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

30567 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

Enterprise Part of the furniture

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