VT - 4965: The Welsh Marches 29th August

No to both.

 

My footage of 4965 in action over the weekend.

 

Yes in the past I have found that an effective way of nicking the booze for me and my mates in third class........

 

I am sure VR are mortified they have lost your patronage and you wont be traveling with them.

 

I was answering KentYeti not you. Didn't ask for your opinion or sarcastic quip!
They haven't lost my patronage, they never had it the first place.

 

Lovely shots.

And that first one, wow! Signal box, semaphore signals, and sidings too! Good choice of location.

 

My video here of the steam, mostly seen is diesels which may dissapoint a few... Sorry.

 

A nasty bumpy bit of track makes the loco bounce about alarmingly at about 1 minute 18 seconds into that video.

 

I think you have a point. On an HST out of Paddington, you can stand where ever you want and even hang out of the window at 125mph although not a very pleasant experience!

VT must do it their way. They were always tough on the window boys going back many years and one reason why, apart from one occasion, I have not travelled with them.

The issue just now is the inconsistency of the ruling. As always, one only has to view the many You Tube vids in recent weeks to see that most operators are clearly not bothered about enforcing it. Just imagine stewards on the approach to the seawall at Dawlish telling everyone to stay in their seats. There would be a mutiny. Don't worry, the fact that most vestibule windows are occupied suggests that this was never enforeced on the Torbay Express and why would it?

 

A separate thread away from here is perhaps needed Al, so people can let off steam or support VT.

 

Buseng, What a relief, for a moment I thought that you may have been someone who had inadvertantly managed to get through our passenger selection process.

Seriously though folks, I will just offer a few words on this business of heads out of windows.

Firstly it has always been frowned on. Those of us of a certain age will recall the traditional signs which used to be affixed over droplight windows which said "DO NOT LEAN OUT OF THE WINDOW", often modified by the mischievous amongst our number to "DO NOT CLEAN SOOT OFF THE WINDOW". So leaning out was never really permitted and there will be many of us who were admonished by the keener BR guards and told to sit down somewhere.

Next, I can only quote from West Coast Railway's company Standard governing the responsibilities of tour managers, stewards and support crews. Paragraph 3.3.3 concerning stewards contains a paragraph which quite clearly states that "Stewards must actively discourage passengers, either as individuals or in groups, from congregating in the vestibule ends of vehicles or from attempting to lean out of windows.". Given the amount of trouble which WCR has been in we at Vintage Trains have been asked to comply completely with a number of revised WCR standards concerning the operation of trains, and we are not about to permit anything which is unsafe. We can only conclude that other tour promoters using WCR have been made aware of these standards. Now if other tour promoters are still permitting passengers to congregate in vestibules and to lean out of windows, we can only conclude that they have either not read these standards, or that their directors, tour managers or stewards have chosen to ignore them. That of course is not for us to enforce, all that we can do is to ensure that we are sticking to the rules which we have been asked to obey, and that is all we are doing.

With regard to accusations of heavy handedness, I have to claim that I have no knowledge of such occasions, but I can say from experience that not every customer is polite or compliant, and let us just leave it by saying that we do occasionally meet heavy handed customers who do not enjoy the experience of being treated as they treat others.

Finally, I do have to relate that in a recent discussion with the Deputy Chief Inspecting Officer of Railways, he made it quite clear to me that he did not expect to see passengers heads sticking out of droplights. I have to tell you that we are not about to disagree with him on this issue and others would be wise to do the same. Saturday's train is a case in point, which highlights the dangers of putting your head out of windows, for it is no exaggeration to say that between Newport and Hereford there must be in aggregate several miles of trees and Buddleia on the cess side of the line which have been carefully trimmed by Network Rail to exact train profile, and these do provide a significant danger to anyone venturing to stick their head out at wrong moment. When they do so and get poked in the eye by a tree branch, who do you all think that they are going to sue?

Regards
Bob

 

A point well made. Us window hangers are certainly the minority but nevertheless, we love all the positives which go with ending up with a dirty face at the end of the day. The sound and smell of the locomotive hard at work from the window is a drug and a very safe one too. Incidents are very rare.

On holiday in North Yorkshire last week, I was able to travel behind steam all the way to Whitby and back to Pickering. Out came the goggles and woolly hat and it seemed just like the old days. I hope we are able to do this again on the mainline without hinderance in the future.

 

Fair comment if the mods want to split this thread.

 

The quote & the first sentence were totally both unnecessary & pointless.

 

No arguing with the rules quoted by Bob but in all the years of window hanging behind Deltics etc., the only warning we got was once behind 55011. "If you don't get your head in you'll get cancer." Other than that BR guards left us alone to "endanger" ourselves with gay abandon.

 

You can still do it without hindrance. Just not aboard a WCR operated train !

 

Damn funny opening paragraph! And buseng, please lighten up. It's only a bit of humour to lead into a detailed response on a contentious subject.

People have been killed leaning out of windows. That was brought home to me early in my gricing life by a poor schoolchild decapitated on the South Western lines approaching, I think, Clapham Junction from Earlsfield. Narrow clearances. I was steam bashing that day with others and it was a timely reminder about how to behave on any train: I have never forgotten it. I wonder if Al was around at that time?

The best warning notice was that on those wonderful, locomotive hauled corridor trains on the Continent, the Italian wording on a multi language notice above every opening window:-

"e pericoloso sporgersi"

Which of course those of us travelling from the UK to find steam immediately translated as:-

"Do not hang your spaghetti out of the window"

 

Thanks for taking the time to respond Bob and to provide in writing with the WCRC Standard. OK, I still think it's draconian stopping individuals standing in a vestibule - which was the point I raised. I can well understand the ban on sticking heads out of windows at both the seats and the vestibule droplights these days with the vegetation so close to the train. I still think it a shame that we can't even stand in the vestibule by the window - not the droplight - to time using the mileposts. It would seem that such actions wouldn't upset the Deputy Chief Inspecting Officer of Railways from the above. Droplight up, just using the window onto the milepost world.