VT The Welsh Marches - 28th September

I appreciate all the feedback....

 

Is the West Suburban getting a path or is it not gauge friendly to non Panniers ?, I still need that section for steam and unless I'm mistaken, that tour going via Selly Oak wasn't widely known in advance.

Just a shame that going via the Lickey and running round at Washwood Heath is so hard to make practical, not sure how much time it would save, if any, but Snow Hill - Worcester via Stourbridge feels like it adds a fair chunk of time to itinaries, rarely topping 40 until south of Kidderminster.

 

How about another trip through the Severn tunnel and a quick spin on part of the Badminton line?
I really enjoyed that last minute change for the two Halls in March.

 

Just a few points to add to Ben's comments which will further explain some of the rationale of these operations.

Firstly the Worcester Hereford line has been out to GW loco's for a fair while now due to gauging issues with a low bridge in the Malvern area and clearance issues at Worcester Foregate Street station.

Whilst we understand the interest in banking on the Lickey, it is a bit of an indulgence which we have tried on several occasions, it adds serious costs to an operation, and that in turn impacts on the bottom line. Generally they have not been supported as well as we had hoped and this does inevitably have an effect on our views of repeat operations. If it does not make money we are unlikely to repeat it in the near future at least, great photos do not help us to pay for the upkeep of all that kit.

With regard to running on the West Suburban into New Street, to be fair I didn't think that this stood a chance, it was something that Alastair and Ben came up with and it was abit of a wild card. I let them get on with it and to my great surprise Network Rail accepted it and it happened. It is not at all easy slotting such trains into New Street and really is something that we are unlikely to try in the foreseeable future particularly as climbing the Lickey requires multiple locos in one fom or another which then presents problems in the Midland side of New Street where at least one loco is likely to be under the canopy and a risk to setting off the fire alarms.

We have put a substantial amount of work into the running of trains firstly from, and then through New Street and have been substantially supported by the Network Rails ops management team who have secured the approval to do it from higher authority. We would like to believe that part of that success was due to the fact that both West Coast and VT were seen to be responsible and reliable. Over a period of several years we have gradually and carefully built up what we have done, first by diesel hauling trains into the station so that the steam loco was in the open reday to start from the south end, then to diesel piloting the steam loco through from Bescot, effectively the fire risk strategy of light steam; and then eventually to running southbound trains through steam hauled. There have also been quite a few little known light loco moves through the station, the first such unpiloted move being (IIRC) 6201 some while ago, the most recent 5043 piloting 6233 and 2 support coaches in June (which move, incidentally, we believe to be the first steam train along the whole length of the Stour Valley line for many years). We have studiously avoided workings in the opposite direction, mainly because of the tricky nature of the station, with the low speed climb up into the station, the fact that you have to work the loco through the platforms under the canopy in order to lift the train out of the south tunnel and then having to work the train up the tunnel outy of the station out on to the Stour Valley line. This tunnel was always a bit of a challenge in steam days and in the oppposite direction is one which still needs considerable care and control in approaching the signals and speed restrictions at the station end of the tunnel. We do not think that it is entirely fair to additionally impose fog working on drivers from other operators who use the station, by filling the tunnel with the substantial quantity of steam resulting from the climb out of New Street. Steam operations through New Street really absolutely need the most careful management of the loco in order to have enough steam to do the job, enough space in the boiler to be able to put more water in to keep it quiet, enough well burnt through fire to ensure that you can generate enough steam to get out of there without making smoke, and all done on somewhat challenging gradients which are not always apparent to the passenger. The DBS crew on the recent Torpedo operation are to be congratulated on getting through without setting off the alarms etc, but we have always considered that there is a risk to operating in this direction (as did certain DBS people of our acquaintance) and up to present we have not been prepared to risk all the work which a lot of people have put in to making steam in New Street acceptable. We do have a view that the first time the alarms go off and a station evacuation ensues will be the last time that steam goes in there. It is all very well being smart and having a tilt at it for the publicity when you have not put anything in to developing the ability to run into New Street but in our view such operation is fraught with risk and really crosses the boundary into irresponsibilty.

Hopefully this answers a few of the questions raised in this thread.

Regards
Bob

 

Thanks for those explanations Bob, makes it easier and more understandable why certain things don't happen when the reasons preventing them become known.

 

I too would like to thank Bob clarifying the various points, and especially for confirming that (as I suspected) the reason for Vintage Trains' avoidance of the Worcester-Hereford line was a gauging issue, if not in the locations I had suspected. It's a pity we can't enjoy the spectacle of Great Western engines on this route, with so much GWR infrastructure still in situ, but it's still rather goo to be able to enjoy any steam loco, regardless of its origins, on a stretch of line where steam-age signalling is still in daily use.

 

I am afraid that unless there is a change, you missed your chance to do the West Suburban line behind steam. Nothing to do with guaging - it is to do with the tunnels into New St. We have been "advised" that it would not be a good idea to try it again.

If you remember way back when, I said all along that there was going to be a surprise on the tour and you should book on it. That was it! Whatever anyone else says, we were not 100% that we were going to get to run that way until a couple of days before - THAT is why it was never announced.

I I had said from the start we were going that way, and then didn't, how much flack would we have taken?

Sometimes it pays to trust me!