WCME/CME 2024

Do you not think this is the TOC’s fault for being bloody stupid in the first place?
I really have no idea why you try and defend the indefensible at times.
As an aside the last time I looked the Severn Valley wasn’t a mainline TOC that had had its license to operate revoked by the ORR.

 

Unless people have been living under a rock for the last couple of weeks, we should all be grateful the train is running for the sake of RTC and all of the wider supply chain. The situation is none of their fault.
It is a train with a steam loco on the front and the vast majority who have booked will prefer that, than no train at all. Have some perspective please guys and please don't blame RTC.

 

86259 heading back from Burton to Rugby (dragged to Lichfield) today, in preparation for Saturday.

 

Are you quoting the right post? Post #59 does not read to me as defending anyone; rather agreeing with most of us that the present situation is not great.

 

I can't see the attraction of sitting in a Mk2 aircon all day behind a steam loco. Other than smoke drifting past the windows, there will be no indication of what is up front. If I were booked on this train I definitely wouldn't be grateful it was running in this guise, I'd much rather have my money back!

 

Ok so let’s say everyone asks for their money back, WCR don’t make any money, they then can’t afford to fit the CDL, so you actually end up with no trains!

This moment is when WCR need the punters and need the support financially, to allow those who want the MK1s to have them in the future

 

Same here...

 

They're not a little charity struggling to make ends meet. They make millions of pounds every year. They don't need any financial support - they need to stop buying steam locos, play by the rules, and fit their bloody stock with CDL!

If you're happy spending 16 hours cooped in an air con Mk2 with only one chance to get off the train, fine. But to me and a lot of other people that's not enjoyable in the slightest. Other than the smoke drifting past the window and the lack of acceleration (except when the diesel pushes), there's going to be very little difference before and after Carnforth on Saturday.

 

And then you’d be up in arms if he hadn’t bought a couple of locos, which then might have had worse fates! Just can’t win!

 

I also assume that whilst they fit this CDL, you’d prefer them not to run any trains if it can’t be MK1s? So based on 3/4 weeks per coach, you’re happy to wait 36/48 weeks for one set to be done, before tours start again?

 

How would 45110 and 45593 had worse fates? Worse than 4920, stripped for spares and sent to Japan?

It won't be one vehicle at a time, it'll be quicker, easier and cheaper to have several on the go at once. Unless they're just planning on one bloke doing everything!

Anyway, I didn't say they shouldn't run any tours until they get a set fitted. I said it's not my idea of fun. When a couple of tickets plus food, drink, fuel and parking will set you back about £300 in standard class or £500 in first, I'd rather spend my money elsewhere. If I said to my wife we can have a day out in dining, but it'll cost us over 700 quid by the end of day, and the only time you can really get off the train is for 90 minutes in Carlisle, she'd think I was mental. For the same price you could have a few days in the Harz with pure steam, standing on the balcony, blasting up the Brocken.

We're all enthusiasts on here but we don't have unlimited pots of money. Support them all you want, but I can't think of anything worse than being stuck in an air con Mk2 all day being shoved around northern England by a 47.

 

No, I wouldn't. If they'd met worse fates, then I'd be concerned - not whether one particular individual has or hasn't added to his collection.

No, I'd like WCRC to do as others have done, and engage with the regulator to agree a plan that will support an exemption. ORR have as far as I can tell been reasonable and pragmatic in their discussions with other operators; I see no reason why that should be different with WCRC.

But the onus is on WCRC to play by ORR's rules, and accept that these provide WCRC with their license to operate. If they can't or won't abide by those rules, then I don't want them on the railway. That's nothing to do with whether I agree with those rules*, and everything to do with expecting that all on the system abide by the rules that do exist. I suggest reading https://www.gov.uk/raib-reports/signal-passed-at-danger-at-stafford for a view of where breakdown of that discipline can lead, and the risks it imposes to all on the network, not just a non-compliant operator.

* - where CDL on charter stock is concerned, I think the expression "mountain out of a molehill" applies.

 

Yeah I’ve read about Stafford plenty of times. Being a mainline man it’s something that crops up often in safety briefs and so on.

 

Personally for me it’s far from being about an open window, or being able to hear anything from the loco. It’s the rest of the exprience that matters. I stood by a window from Edinburgh to York back in 2012 with Tornado, and it wasn’t overly exciting. 12 months later I sat in Prem Dining behind the same loco and it was much better.

Ive got a 6 day trip to the Harz in Feb, followed by the Midland Pullman in July, Saphos job to Kingswear in August and another couple of trips. I honestly can’t say any of them are about the noise of the loco, or anything of that sort. They are all for the experience they give, and tbh the Pullman is the one I’m looking forward to the most. Far rather enjoy the Prem Dining at speed, the view from the window at the table, than be able to hear a loco work. The Saphos one is purely because of the loco booked to haul it, but again I’ll hear it if I can, if not then I’ll see it at Kingswear. If I want to hear it work I’ll go lineside, phot in a field, or a fire a loco at the SVR.

 

Each to their own but for me it is all about the thrash. If I can’t hear the Loco, I might as well make the journey on a scheduled service, using my Railcard, and save myself a fistful of money.
As for the Harz, standing on an open balcony and hearing that big 2–10 – 2T thrash its way up The Brocken is one of the greatest railway experiences going IMO. Even impressed the wife when we did it back in 1993, and she’s no railway enthusiast

 

Have to admit I’m only going to the Harz for the 2-6-2. A bit like I only went to the IoM for Caledonia. Both places in my opinion are the equivalent of a UK Heritage Railway have a fleet of standards, whilst having the stand alone Pannier Tank! Pannier wins hands down.

For me I’m not about noise. I’d rather hear a loco gently plod along, not be worked excessively and enjoy a steady trundle.

 

There is no gentle plod on the Brocken.
Given the gradients that abound on the Harz, locos are worked hard most of the time.

 

If this is the future for mainline steam (mk2 aircons) then it wouldn't bother me if WCRC threw in the towel and gave up as the product on offer doesn't interest me in the slightest. Fortunately I've experienced mainline steam, when it was enjoyable and you could stick your head out of the window. I've done Shap, S&C, the Lickey, Talerddig, Devon banks etc and unless something changes I've probably done my last mainline steam trip in the UK.

 

Well I shall look forward to the 2-6-2 elsewhere on the network. The Brocken itself is not of interest to me.

 

Unfortunately this is the problem with the whole hobby. A general unwillingness/frustration to accept change and move with the times. This is why loco groups like the one I’m part of struggle for volunteers and funding, it’s why lots of places are struggling. They have to move with the times as per regulations but their supporters don’t move with them.