WCRC Licence Suspended

Yes, that's a good thought re D&CR It's all speculation though atm as I guess it COULD be business as usual fairly quickly.

 

I think we can forget about anybody else moving onto WCRC's turf in the short term. What this sorry saga demonstrates is that running a fully compliant TOC isn't an easy thing to do - setting up a new one is far more challenging. I would suggest that there are a few companies that could be contracted to run WCRC's diesel charters but, as regards steam, there is only one other show in town. Whether they are approached to run some of the tours that would previously have been run by West Coast and, even more importantly, whether they're prepared to commit resources is a matter for conjecture at this point.

 

Whilst setting up a new TOC is a daunting task, it means that all the necessary paper trails (yes, I know they are by no means the last word in safety) and basic checks and balances would be created from scratch to ensure full compliancy as part of the process- a sort of re-setting. I suspect part of the current problem may be analogous with the shoe-sole scenario. How many times do you patch up a pair of shoes before they become a uneconomic and you are forced to purchase a new pair? In any case, it will be interesting to see what, if any, developments will emerge tomorrow...

 

What the present situation will do, regardless of how long it lasts, is to focus the minds of all those who are motivated and resourced for running steam on the mainline. Everyone with an interest knows the market is presently flawed so the current problem will undoubtedly accelerate the pace of change towards a new structure with different business models.
WCRC business model has been very successful up to this point. It has not, however, been tested by the challenge of a competitor which is the normal market imperative that drives improvement and innovation. If the management culture within WCRC is imbued with that sense of monopoly and entitlement it might be harder than we imagine for them to make the ideological changes necessary to both regain status and withstand future challenges.

 

Are West Coasts Steam drivers contracted to West Coast, or hired as and when needed, if the answer is that its on a as and when basis, then whats to stop another TOC with a steam safety case hiring drivers and guards under the same system as long as they are competent, for instance if RSL Became an TOC, With its own safety case and agreements with diesel owners and rolling stock providers , then some former West Coast staff, might be hired, plus whats to stop any future TOC,from training up its charter crews on preserved railways,

 

I have no doubt that "running a TOC isn't an easy thing to do" but in "this sorry saga" the failure to comply with NR regulations seems more of an attitudinal problem than a process problem.

 

Nothing at all in principle. Provided the process of selecting and appointing staff uses demonstrable competence as its core criteria then individuals should be free to work for whoever has need to employ them. It was suggested earlier in this topic that WCRC steam crews are effectively casual labour. Not sure about other roles but perhaps few are cards in or salaried staff so it may not suit the majority if other TOCs have more restrictive terms of employment.

 

Yes, well aren't a lot of WCR steam crews ex DBS, who possibly retired from that organisation because they couldn't continue beyond a certain age, but with WCR there's more flexibility so can get casual work driving steam when it suits them?

Could it be that if a new TOC came on the scene they may decide they don't want to employ anyone for steam driving above a certain age. Not sure whether there's a ceiling on that with WCR, but could driver age become another safety concern amid this current situation ?

 

I suspect that we may end up with three organisation, with one running all the Hoskins loco tour, DBS doing the Belmond Pullman and West Coast doing the rest. Hoskins has already demonstrated that he wants control over as much as he can over the activities relating to his fleet, it would make perfect sense to add operations. His main problem is going to be sourcing rolling stock. We've already seen one or two heritage lines sell the odd coach in what must be assumed are killer deals, I could foresee more of that happening.

 

I was going to make that point as well, but as it appears we're not certain on what basis these guys are employed, I didn't think it immediately relevant. My own view on zero hours contract for what it's worth is that they have a place in cases of casual labour but it shouldn't be possible to employ someone year on year doing the same job and working at least 40 hours per week on a zero hours basis. That's all I'll say as it's going OT, but since the ethics of ZH contracts were raised, hopefully I'll be forgiven,

 

Its another aspect that might come under scrutiny. Gaining sufficient route knowledge to be deemed competent must be a tall order for any driver not employed full time as such or having been previously so. This is where the issue of succession planning is so difficult. There are probably loads of steam guys with superb traction skills gained on heritage lines, that can prove their loco handling ability and knowledge but struggle to get sufficient time on the road under their belt to be able to get signed off.
Owner drivers under the supervision of a conductor have been mooted before and are common in other parts of Europe I believe. Not sure how many new drivers WCRC is putting through each year but it must be getting harder unless plenty of other toc retirees want to carry on with steam and get taken on accordingly. Many of the firemen are drawn from heritage lines but its a big step to make driver i would guess. Again not sure how many have been through that route.

 

JH is indeed spending a lot of money refurbishing his rolling stock so the passenger experience should be head and shoulders above some of the WCR stock - but will the fares have to reflect this investment, and is he targeting a non-enthusiast market?
Dave

 

I think your views on the ethics of using zero hours contracts as a business model have been aired in the appropriate forum so I won't take that debate any further here if it's all the same.

 

What coaching stock does JH own at the present, didn't he buy some of DBS's spare rakes? about 2 years ago? also, how often are APWS and the various systems checked on steam locos? what happens if one of the recorders fail whilst on the road, does the loco then have to stop at the first suitable place for rescue and be failed, or can it work the remainder of the tour, as long as the driver is in direct contact with the signalling centre ?

 

Yes, I'd be interested to know what stock JH owns. I'd always thought Riviera Trains took over all the ex EWS / DBS coaching stock, the old BN90, 91 etc so wonder just what this stock mentioned in post # 413 is and its history.

 

There have been rumours on several occassions that JH was buying rolling stock, but AFAIK, each time they have turned out to be just that - rumours. I've heard several people express the hope that he'd also set up his own TOC, or do a deal with an existing one, but I've never heard any suggestion that he really is planning such a thing.

Someone earlier made a point about there being no competition for WCRC as a steam TOC. DBS could take on a little more work than just the TBX, Tornado and the Pullmans, but they're not going to have significant impact on the market. The important point to remember is that there's only marginal profit in steam, and you've really got to love it to try to run trains using it.

 

JH has been linked to one gutted FO from the Gwili in a swap for a BSK (ex-Bluebell) last year. Will have to keep some eyes peeled on what happens to some of the GWSR's 'spares'. Either way, its probably going to take years if this is indeed what is happening.

 

One thing to bear in mind is that there currently seems to be few suitable air-braked locomotives in service which would probably preclude DBS picking up much of the work that is available due to WCRC's enforced absence.

[Edit] I seem to recall this being touched upon some pages back. There's been a lot written in the past few days!