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WCRC Scarborough Spa/Dalesman/Spirit of the Lakes/normal tours 2022

Discussion in 'What's Going On' started by neildimmer, Jan 11, 2022.

  1. nige757

    nige757 Member

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    No speed restriction just the condition as there were a couple of slips after passing under the road bridge and after the second the sanders were applied from there on no problem, a great job from the crew under difficult conditions.
     
  2. sgthompson

    sgthompson Part of the furniture Friend

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    The now retired Gordon Hodgson mentioned to me once that if a loco he was driving was steaming badly or was struggling he knew that the section at Helwith near the Quarry would give him the chance to get a bit of speed up as it’s level ish and judging by the video from Nige he was correct.
     
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  3. 30910

    30910 Member

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    Thank you Steve but I fear the righteous one must have been on the train as I got drenched waiting in the horizontal rain (and wind).
     
  4. Shep Woolley

    Shep Woolley Well-Known Member Friend

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    Dalesman BIL 1c.jpg

    SRMN class No. 35018 'British India Line' works the final 'Dalesman' of the season away from Horton in Ribblesdale to Carlisle in not the best of weather conditions with Chris Cubitt driving, Martyn Soames firing and Roly Parker Guard

    Dalesman BIL 2 NP.jpg

    In fading light 'British India Line' works the returning 'Dalesman' through Kirkby Stephen Station and on to Hellifield with Steve Chipperfield driving, Rob Russell firing and Roly Parker Guard
     
  5. Linesider

    Linesider Well-Known Member

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    46115 at Gargrave with the return leg of the Scarborough Spa Express on 1 September:

     
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  6. 30567

    30567 Part of the furniture Friend

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    Seven York Dalesman, four Chester Dalesman, three Pendle Dalesman and four SSEs from Carnforth via Skipton added to the website for 2023. So the problem at York is not yet resolved for the SSEs.
     
  7. torgormaig

    torgormaig Part of the furniture Friend

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    So how do you account for 46115 spending the next two nights at York. Is it not more likely that the all steam SSE from Carnforth is a better commercial proposition than the previous format as well as better utilising the limited available pool of locos.

    Peter
     
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  8. 30567

    30567 Part of the furniture Friend

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    I don't know Peter. I assume there is a problem with turning the loco at York,but perhaps there is also an issue with parking the loco away from base. I feel WCR would like to be operating the Copy Pit route as well as the Skipton if they could.

    Anyway, main point is that another good programme is in prospect.
     
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  9. RalphW

    RalphW Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Administrator Friend

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    Isn't one of the problems of the southern SSE route, that whilst timed for diesel it is doable, but not when timed for steam?
     
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  10. Oswald T Wistle

    Oswald T Wistle Well-Known Member Friend

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    Southbound Steam on the Settle & Carlisle - 2022

    Using the excellent settlecarlislesteam.co.uk website (thanks Ian) there were 36 southbound runs with steam haulage. Of those 21 had a diesel locomotive in the formation. There were several reasons for the inclusion of a diesel; the usual ones being electricity supply, shunting the stock/reversal and operating in the leaf fall season. Less usual was the addition of a diesel for 4 runs during a period of severe fire risk.

    [The CME on 15 October, because of perceived “leaf fall issues”, included a class 47 on the rear. However, the 47 failed leaving Carlisle. Throughout the following this run has been counted as steam only (S) and not steam plus diesel (S+D)].

    There were 8 different steam locomotives used:

    34046 – 2 (S+D)
    34067 – 10 (S+D)
    34067+45690 – 1 (S)
    35018 – 9 (S), 2 (S+D)
    45690 – 1 (S+D)
    45699 – 1 (S)
    46100 – 1 (S+D)
    46115 – 5 (S), 3 (S+D)
    46233 – 1 (S+D)

    You probably don’t need reminding that I encouraged travellers to record and post the time for the challenging climb from Ormside (MP275) to the Ais Gill Summit sign (MP259¾). The year provided a potential 36 times.

    Historically, some trips do not attract the interest of timers for a variety of reasons; cost and the presence of a diesel being the obvious ones. There were 10 Northern Belles (34067) that always had a diesel on the rear and no times were posted for any of these runs. The 3 Fellsmans (34046/46100) also had an omnipresent diesel and produced no posted times. [Whilst this is understandable it is a little disappointing as, where circumstances permit, the LSL crews do appear willing to use the steam loco to haul the stock leaving the diesel to idle away on the rear.]

    Disregarding the NBelles and Fellsmans leaves 23 runs that might have been timed. Of these 23 we had times posted for 18 runs. “Get on with it, Oswald!”, I hear you cry. So, here they are, with or without a diesel, from a standing start at Appleby or otherwise, in time order, fastest first. [see 22All]

    [​IMG]
    All but 3 runs featured BIL or SG. The times ranged from the very fast (16m 12s) with 4 sub-20m to the less fast with 2 runs over 30m. [On 26 Feb 45699+11 recorded 30m 56s in what used to be a typical time for a Jubilee. On 15 Oct 35018 recorded 31m 07s hauling 11 plus a non-contributing class 47 in “less than ideal” conditions.] It is interesting to note that almost all the non-stop runs through Appleby were at very similar speeds (51-55mph).

    Of the 18 timed runs, 14 were steam only. [To make the steam only runs more apparent, runs involving a diesel have been made feint - see 22steamonly]
    [​IMG]
    There is a group of 6 runs with times between 21m 20s and 22m 51s, of these 4 started from Appleby whilst 2 ran through non-stop. Perhaps this might suggest that with a large well-steaming locomotive, a willing crew and the constraints of a 60mph railway there is little benefit (or otherwise) from stopping at Appleby. With that in mind, the run of 09 Apr (35018+12, non-stop thro’ Appleby) in 18m 44s was of the highest calibre.

    There were 7 “steam only” runs that began with a start from Appleby and were thus possible contenders for the “Blue Riband” and here they are, [see 22StOAppStart]

    [​IMG]
    The final condition for “Blue Riband” consideration is that the load must be a minimum of 12 coaches. On that basis I declare that the uncontested winner of the “Blue Riband Best Time of the Year (2022)”, in seventh place on your list, is 46115 Scots Guardsman (pause for applause) which, on 21st May, hauled the Cumbrian Mountain Express in the (unremarkable) time of 26m 13s.

    My thanks to all of you who posted times, all those on the various footplates and all those many more behind the scenes who made it all possible. Here’s hoping for an even better 2023. Best wishes for a happy new year and may all your diesels stay at home!

    PS I had intended to post a video of the Awards Ceremony. Mrs W in her best frock presenting the Blue Riband (biscuit – what else?!) to Scots Guardsman at Darwen station but I forgot to arrange it with 10A, besides which someone had scoffed the last Blue Riband in the biscuit tin. Ah well, maybe next year . . .
     

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    Last edited: Dec 30, 2022
  11. 30567

    30567 Part of the furniture Friend

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    Thanks for your efforts David, appreciated,

    I spent a bit of time trawling through the log data on @iancawthorne site. At the record setting end of the spectrum, I'd agree the stop at Appleby probably doesn't make a lot of difference; if you are going up there in 18 mins, you have to start from Ormside at 60. In the 'good but not exceptional run' category above, I think there is a bit of a difference. With a run through Appleby, there is no reason not to be starting the climb at 60. With a stop at Appleby, in practice you are most likely to be up at 50 to 55 by Ormside if you are going to be in this category. That probably translates to a difference of half a minute to a minute on the initial climb to Griseburn. The speed drop off over that section is quite variable, anything between 10 to 20 mph, so beyond Griseburn I'd say no observable difference, other factors take over.

    So run of the year given the load of 12 was probably run 2 on 9 April.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2022
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