WD 132 Sapper

i know this has nothing to do with wd132, but at selinge there is another austerity which i believe is a genuine br loco , ive never seen anyone actually working on it, the frames have been done , who actually owns it? and whats their plans for it?

 

That is the one I meant! It is 68078, one of the two genuine J94's left. It was bought out of store at Southall by the KESR. They intended to do a Mid Hants style conversion to a "Thomas". Someone then realised that the BR number painted on the engine was actually genuine. The KESR then sold the engine to a group of KESR members. I believe that is the correct recent history.

68078 was initally due to go straight to the KESR, but with the follow-on sale, she moved instead to Sellindge. The intention, I believe, is that she will be given her initial restoration there, then she will move to the KESR, and will be run there under an agreement.

Martin, I believe you might just know who "California Works" is on here. He is one of the Folkestone originals of the SLL crew. He is also involved with 68078, and I believe was working on Norman with you two. He should know more than me.

http://jonedwards.photobook.org.uk/p51141961.html is a direct pic of 68078.

http://jonedwards.photobook.org.uk/c1526512.html is a gallery of a visit to the site last year. I was also there about three weeks ago, and I got more recent pics. Not yet on web, but I will upload.

 

'Twerp came to the NYMR on loan from the then NCB and, as with all locos that the NCB/British Coal put out on loan, it is now the property of the National Coal Mining Museum. It was last overhauled in 1971/2 and worked at Wheldale until 1980. I arranged for it to go to the NYMR and it worked their until 1984, clocking up 25,425 miles in the process. Not bad for an already well-worn Austerity! Very little work was done on it during its NYMR period and it was well shot when taken out of service because of its boiler condition. At least a new firebox required, there. It's wheel tyres are also scrap. Then, as already mentioned, there is the matter of the blue asbestos lagging (which incidentally, I helped fit during its NCB overhaul!) Although there are those on the NYMR who would like to see it overhauled and used there, The NYMR itself would be happy to see it go and the NCMM would be happy to see it go to a good home but, anything other than a cosmetic restoration is not going to be cheap.

 

fireline, if you were thee three weeks or so ago you probally know me, im the one in the hi vis overalls yes i know california very well, i never knew he was involved with 68078 lets hope we can rescue that from the undergrowth and make a start on it, if the other members agree to allow us to restore it

 

Unfortunately not, Martin. I will have to pop down at some point when you guys are there! Having said that, I am now hoping that California is who I think it is, or I'm going to look like a right twit!!!!

 

im not sure about asbestos , is the blue stuff the nasty stuff that has to be sealed before it can be removed so who ever takes it on will have a lot of expense to meet ,looks like it could well be a very expensive loco to restore (but what one isnt)
does anyone know who to contact about either sapper or erol longsdale

 

Martin If you want to contact someone about Sapper or Errol Lonsdale then I suggest you contact the railway station at Buckfastleigh if you PM me I'll give you the number. Or you can find it on their website.

 

Blue asbestos, or croccidolite is the nastiest of the two really dangerous forms of asbestos; brown asbestos, amosite, is not quite as bad, but still dangerous. Even a short exposure to the fibres of blue asbestos can lead to a very unpleasant fatal lung disease called mesothelioma. It has been directly linked to blue asbestos. The white chrysotile asbestos is no more dangerous than any other dust inhaled in large quantities over extended periods, as it has been shown to dissolve in the slightly acidic environment of the lungs. Unfortunatley, it was damned with the other two in the big asbestos scare a few decades ago and the whole industry collapsed. Steer clear, it needs specialist contractors and sealed tents, etc.

 

Just found this topic and I happen to know the current situation with the three Austerities at the South Devon Railway so here goes.

Lots of the previous posts have some true points in them, both Sapper and Errol Lonsdale are owned by the South Devon and Glendower is privately owned. All three have worked the line at various times but are currently out of service awaiting boiler overhauls, they have all been assesed for what work is needed.

Sapper - stopped at annual exam a few years ago due to thickness of steel firebox and requires a new box. It has done about 15000 miles since a major mechanical overhaul and has life left in the chassis.

Errol Lonsdale - completed a full boiler life and has had tubes removed ready for replacement but also has some concerns with the copper firebox which can be addressed. Mechanicals need an intermediate as the motion is well worn.

Glendower - boiler has been stripped and needs tubes, about 150 copper stays, possibly crown stays and some copper welding to the laps. Axleboxes also need some work and new brasses are in stock, motion overhauled 18 months before end of boiler ticket so life left in it.

The main reason why nothing is happening to them at the moment is that the railway has sufficient locos in service (yes, they are Great Western as that was what the members wanted at the time) and the next few years also have other locos coming through.
There are major costs involved in returning any of the Austerities to service, Sapper being the most expensive, and the railway does not have the funds to do this at present. I don't think there is sufficient earning potential on the hire market to cover the cost of borrowing money to do an overhaul at the present time, I know that various approaches have been made to the owner of Glendower but no one has been able to put any money 'up front' to make the project viable.

I am sure the South Devon would be preparred to listen to any proposals but in the meantime the locos are not forgotten and their time will come again in the future.

 

well , lets hope that they get some TLC while they wait , as traveling around as i do ,it always makes me sad when i see locomotives that were once cared for, deteriate in to wrecks again , i say this because is it not possible for once a month that a 'stored loco ' is given a wash and polish ?

 

"Sapper" had a period on hire/loan at Swanage (from Chatterley Whitfield) and was then still running as "Joseph" in light green livery which earned the loco the nickname of "Kermit". The engine was extremely popular with most of the crews and some surreptitious swapping of duties quite often occured to ensure grabbing the right engine! Happy days \/ \/

The engine is easily identifiable due to the NCB having hung the smokebox door hinges on the 'wrong side' of the ring.

 

As far as I'm aware Sapper did receive a clean when she was put on display at Totnes and is being cared for by the Totnes group. I don't think Errol has been quite so lucky in that respect, as for Glendower she has had work done and has now been moved from the PLOG shed to the running shed I believe but due to her being privately owned it takes time without the manpower or resources to do the overhaul in a hurry.

 

Well I think the plan is to compleate the work soon-ish, but with 'Manston' and 'Eddystone' keep misbehaving and 80104 away (owned by the same people remember), it have to wait for the second to fit around the operating engines.

 

norman; wont have been with in the same timespan that we would have finished it in, we dont have to wrorry about service engines, well not yet anyway but in the future who knows =P~ we are making steady progress in our attempts to save the line as regards antwerp, i understand that the owners might be prepared to pay for the removal of the aspestos
also i have contacted the SDR and im awaiting a reply about possibly taking either of the two engines on loan most likily sapper beacause a steel firebox is easier to get made than a copper one so heres keeping fingers crossed, if sucessful what ever engine will be restored to army livery my prefered livery would be longmoor blue, lined out in red with the rct badge on cab side

 

Nice livery choice! Would look spectacular! I wish you all the best with getting Sapper, it will hopefully be great to see her up and running, giving off the usual bark! =D>

 

There may well be financial reasons for SLL getting SR to complete the overhaul of "Norman", I suspect there is some sort of deal regarding subsequent use on the railway (this is my guess as I'm not party to any of the negotiations). Unfortunately this does mean that "Norman" has to be done around keeping the operational fleet serviceable. We are looking forward to having the engine operational and there are thoughts on using her for footplate training. I'm sure the engine will also get turns on the service trains though will need coaling during the day, and will likely do brakevan rides etc on family fun weeks. Once the engine enters traffic I'm sure the railway will see how useful she can be.

With regards "Sapper", I hope you manage to come to a suitable agreement with SDR it will be good to see the engine back in steam. Best of luck.

 

thanks for everyones good wishes at the moment all we are doing is making enquiries, on the harbour railway bit, we are getting our business plan ratified and hope to have it in place to put to network rail
since becoming public in the fish market on saturdays, we are geting overcome with local people supporting us so the support is there, as is the possibility of eu funding ,we will be more than just a steam railway
here at selinge we are awaiting the outcome of the verious enquires we have made for getting engines on loan , for us austerities are the perfect engine, pulling power, rather than outright speed after all, no way will you get any kind of speed up on a short 1 in 30 ,but i bet the photograthers would be wetting themselves at the thought of the sheer noise and spectical that these engines would make, i can fore see a few photograthers specials being run, once we are able to, if not im sure that the east kent would like a working engine or 2

 

Longmoor Blue would be great, but Sapper with an RCT crest...please no!!

Leave that to Waggoner at the IWSR!

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'Norman' is now in the engine shed at Swanage. Guess once the two Bullied 'lumps' have been fixed work will start.

 

Well I hope this maybe good news for some of you, tonight on my way Home from Doncaster we pulled in the Woodall services on the M1 southbound, we had a meal and as we come out I could see what looked like a train on a back of a heavy Haulage trailer, I wander over and there siting looking nice and pristine was WD132 "Sapper" looking nice and new, I didn't want o wake the driver to find out where she was going but I took a few pictures on my phone to show if I can upload a file on here tomorrow, she had tape over her smoke pot and everything looked nice and clean and gleeming, so I am wondering if she has finally had some restoration work done on it. As I say I have just got home and will try and upload the pictures tomorrow during the day. She smelt lovely just like the old days, smelling of coal etc.......