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Welshpool gala 5, 6 September- Statfold mallet visiting

Discussion in 'Narrow Gauge Railways' started by jamesd, Jun 28, 2015.

  1. jamesd

    jamesd New Member

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    Just in case anybody hasn't seen this announcement, Pakis Baru no5 from Statfold is due to appear at the Welshpool and Llanfair railway's gala this year.
    http://www.wllr.org.uk/news
     
  2. NGChrisW

    NGChrisW New Member

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    Excellent news although it's only quoted as running on "demonstration trains".
    Is it actually going to be used on passenger trains on either day?
    Even if accompanied by one of the W&L fleet (or maybe solo on a shuttle to Sylfaen?) I'd guess that quite a few of us would like to experience it "stretching its wheels" a bit on a longer run.

    Within the same news item, I'd also imagine that the late Mr Bagnall might be a little surprised to see Monarch being described as a "Kitson -Meyer"!
     
  3. houghtonga

    houghtonga New Member

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    The late Ralph Russell and his friends did quite a bit of research in this area and found that Monarch (and her South African siblings) did not marry up to any of the established patents based on the Meyer or Fairlie principles due to some fundamental differences in the design - from memory these include, the bogies not mechanically connected to each other, there not being an ashpan/firebox between the bogies (Bagnall's had marine fireboxes) or the boiler not being used as structural member etc.

    The closest engine to Bagnalls were some comparatively small Barclay engines built for Greece at the turn of the 20th Century, who described them in their catalogue as "Modified Meyer". Rather than using the term "Bagnall-Meyer" (which he suggests was just avoiding the issue) he suggests the Barclay term would be his preference for this design.
     
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  4. jamesd

    jamesd New Member

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    Yes I understand it's down for freights only. I guess it's due to the incompatible braking systems as the W&L is vac only whilst the mallet is air. Perhaps top and tail with Chattenden and let that do the braking? Chattenden would appeal to a few people in its own right or even better Ferret?
     
  5. SpudUk

    SpudUk Member

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    Does the W&L have any Chattenden and Upnor coaches? A C&U "heritage" train would be worth the journey!

    Fingers crossed I'll be attending this year. Does anyone know if there is transport from Llanfair up to the Garden Railway show? Last time we went I made my elderly father walk...
     
  6. marshall5

    marshall5 Member

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    IIRC all the C&U toastracks went to Sittingbourne many years ago. The Combination went somewhere else - WHR maybe? Long time since I've been able to visit the W&L Gala but it was always a good do. Ray.
     
  7. SpudUk

    SpudUk Member

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    I think you may be right Ray
     
  8. 5944

    5944 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the link says there'll be a free bus shuttle service.
     
  9. Achar2001

    Achar2001 New Member

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    Hi, the Chattenden carriages are all at Sittingbourne apart from the Combination car which is indeed on the WHR, it was used extensively as a mess carriage during reconstruction.
    There is usually a free bus service between Llanfair station and the garden railway show and it is indeed on the agenda again for this year.
    The issues with Statfold's Mallet are indeed incompatible brakes. We'd also want to guard against a repeat of the problems we had with Chevallier in 2010, when the line's gradients overwhelmed the loco's lubrication, lead to hot boxes and badly delayed the timetable.
    I'm not sure whether Ferret is vac fitted. I suspect not.
    Regards
    Andrew C
    (With W&LLR press officer hat on...)
     
  10. Richieboy

    Richieboy New Member

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    Morning,

    I can confirm that Ferret is not and has never been fitted with any form of train brake, she only has the loco air and handbrakes.

    The C&U coaches are indeed at Sittingbourne, as Andrew says, (except the combi car) they were moved on because of the issues with any potential fitting of vacuum brakes and lack of space / equipment to do so, as I understand it.
    This would likely be less of an issue these days, as things have moved on in terms of cylinder sizes etc, but back then it was deemed more prudent to purchase stock already fitted I think.

    The combi car bogies are still around at Llanfair somewhere I believe, since the FR/WHR fitted new bogies to it.

    Best regards,

    Rich
     
  11. NGChrisW

    NGChrisW New Member

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    "The issues with Statfold's Mallet are indeed incompatible brakes. We'd also want to guard against a repeat of the problems we had with Chevallier in 2010, when the line's gradients overwhelmed the loco's lubrication, lead to hot boxes and badly delayed the timetable."


    To be fair, the main reason for Chevalliers issues were that it had arrived straight from a very comprehensive overhaul and was immediately pressed into full line service at the gala with very little opportunity for the inevitable "bedding in" and in service "tweaks" that would be required for any loco that had just been rebuilt to that extent.
    The "home" fleet hasn't been immune to issues either as I seem to recall that Joan also had problems (weighshaft bearings coming loose?) on its first gala appearance. (And we won't mention the Resita's various gala indiscretions.....!!)

    As its been in service for a while and after their experience with the Jatibarang Mallet on the WHR, I'd imagine that Pakis Baru No.5 will be arriving in "well sorted" condition from Statfold and its a pity that it couldn't have been used on passenger services even if just as a pilot engine for part of the trip (which presumably would also eliminate the brake issue?)

    Chris
     
  12. jamesd

    jamesd New Member

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    Hopefully the guys at Welshpool are exploring the possibility of using it on passenger trains, for it to spend the whole weekend on freights would be a bit disappointing but I appreciate there are braking issues.

    Will the diesels, Chattenden and the Diema be getting any passenger turns? I'd like the chance to travel behind them again if possible?
     
  13. paulhitch

    paulhitch Part of the furniture

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    This machine appears, from its pictures to be rather small and not likely to be able to haul much of a load. Even if fitted with vacuum braking ( who is offering to do this work by the way) there is the notorious ability of the W&LLR to find the weak point in any locomotive. Several have been found wanting.

    PH
     
  14. 48DL

    48DL New Member

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    Size isn't everything. ;)
     
  15. paulhitch

    paulhitch Part of the furniture

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    Up one mile of 1 in 29 topped with multiple reverse curves, some of which have check rails, size does matter.

    A bit of realism please!

    PH
     
  16. RA & FC

    RA & FC Member

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    I'd see it as a big waste of money also, hiring something in that cannot move a paying passenger. Hopefully they can sort something out for it.
     
  17. paulhitch

    paulhitch Part of the furniture

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    It's no different from any other visiting attraction which does not earn money directly such as showmans road locomotives. Just part of the show.

    Gricers can be such curmudgeons! Had the Mallet not been booked there would be complaints of the "never a visiting engine" sort. A locomotive is available to visit (there are few to choose from) so:- complaints.
    PH
     
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  18. jamesd

    jamesd New Member

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    Nobody is complaining about its appearance, just expressing a desire to travel behind it on the W&L. I don't think anybody expects it to work full line trains but it should be capable of taking a couple of Zillers to Cyfronydd and back, along the lines of Dougal. Just stick chattenden on the back to do the braking and its job done.
     
  19. NGChrisW

    NGChrisW New Member

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    Wasn't a "complaint" on my part, I'll be making the annual pilgrimage and delighted to see it operating whatever its hauling.
    And I wasn't suggesting sending it up (or down!) Golfa bank solo with no brakes and 5 zillers in tow.

    I did however wonder whether the possibility of using it as a pilot engine from Llanfair C to Cyfronydd and back on a couple of occasions might not be beyond the realms of possibility.

    As for the comment that it is "rather small and not likely to be able to haul much of a load", I suggest checking out some of the Youtube clips of it and its sisters running in Java. A dozen or so fully laden sugar cane lori's is probably considerably heavier than you might think!

    Chris
     
  20. andrewshimmin

    andrewshimmin Well-Known Member

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    Blatant thread hijacking, but...
    This got me me thinking.
    The WLLR has few visiting engines because although there are a few of the right gauge about, they are all ex flat industrial systems, no good for severe gradients.
    (Also a problem even with some of the residents. But I love them all and won't have a word said against them).
    Now... there are some 2'6" unrestored locos in a certain collection who must not be named... These are ex Indian locos. Some Indian NG systems were fairly flat, but some were very steep.
    There are also some Spanish ones of the right gauge or thereabouts in the same stable.
    Any of those locos a good possibility for the WLLR?
     
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