If you register, you can do a lot more. And become an active part of our growing community. You'll have access to hidden forums, and enjoy the ability of replying and starting conversations.

West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. bristolian

    bristolian New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2005
    Messages:
    322
    Likes Received:
    87
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Huntingdon. Formerly from Bristol.
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Let's keep a status-quo so we can have more of the same...
     
    Monkey Magic likes this.
  2. Forestpines

    Forestpines Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2009
    Messages:
    1,681
    Likes Received:
    2,436
    Location:
    Bristol
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    "You should follow my advice ... no, not like that!"

    It also reminds me somewhat of some religious groups who say: why spend your time making the real world around you better, when you could be focusing on the paradise that awaits us around the corner that will somehow magically Just Happen
     
    Monkey Magic and bristolian like this.
  3. rodders154

    rodders154 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2005
    Messages:
    627
    Likes Received:
    743
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Health care assistant/ Grumpy old man
    Location:
    Yeovil
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Endorsed and recommended to the boards signed M Sherwood.

    Good luck on that with 4 of the 10 on the WSRA board after the AGM. Being behind the latest move to become trustees on the steam Trust. I applaud Mike Sherwood for trying to do the right thing for the good of the railway. We may not often see eye to eye but I am 100% behind him on this. But I feel that he will fail and it won't be for the lack of trying.



    Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk
     
  4. martin1656

    martin1656 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2014
    Messages:
    14,495
    Likes Received:
    8,799
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    St Leonards
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Interesting read, Thanks go to Steve for publishing it on here, As ever, it has no answers, only more questions,
    I agree that a new charity is needed, but lets be honest, about it, some of the old faces will have to be part of it, to ensure a smooth transfer, and to bed things down, now the question , Can old enemies work together for the good of the railway? Thats going to be the only way, short of revolution, if they can't, then that only leaves revolution.
    The PLC, have to realise and accept, they have made mistakes, and again, can they gracefully step aside,? , if not, then that leaves only one option, to remove them at AGM, or EGM.
     
    Miff, MattA and Piggy like this.
  5. Alan Kebby

    Alan Kebby Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2019
    Messages:
    617
    Likes Received:
    738
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Brighton
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Really?

    When the 4110 group had all/most of the money pledged, didn’t the board then refuse to sell it to them? They instructed people to give the pledged money to the WSRA instead so they could buy it.

    The WSRA then only managed to raise a tiny fraction of the purchase price, and so off 4110 went to the DSR.

    Had the 4110 group been allowed to continue with the purchase, they may well have been able to match DSR’s increased offer, and 4110 might still be at Minehead.
     
  6. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,701
    Likes Received:
    4,870
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    West Country
    ".... upload_2020-9-17_19-1-41.png ...."

    Fine - as an ideal.

    However the author appears to have the view that 'new charity' does NOT equal WSRA + WSSRT. OK, but in that case how will a new charity be created "as quickly as possible" and faster than by a merger of two existing charities? In what way will any new charity actually be 'new' other than if it discards all existing Trustees from both existing charities on the basis that they "come with baggage" etc? In which case, who will fill the vacuum thereafter?

    On the one hand, the author claims that the Plc now has a "strong cohesive Board" (pardon?) committed to implementing the Bailey Report - which, as I read it, means a single over-arching Charity with a subordinate operating company. On the other hand, he seems to suggest that the Plc will not acquiesce in a take-over by a merged WSRA + WSSRT charity - but would not the latter also be in accord with the Bailey Report?

    Is this document a step forward, or merely 'more of the same'? I don't know, I suppose only time will tell...
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
  7. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Messages:
    10,332
    Likes Received:
    5,957
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Never you mind
    Location:
    31A
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    How long until it’s retracted?
     
    ghost, Chufferpuff and bristolian like this.
  8. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,701
    Likes Received:
    4,870
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    West Country
    ...well, at least it's not redacted :)
     
  9. flying scotsman123

    flying scotsman123 Nat Pres stalwart

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Messages:
    9,569
    Likes Received:
    15,243
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Cheltenham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    And what happens to the WSRA and WSSRT? Do they both transfer assets to the new charity (in which case what difference to a merger practically?), or remain purely to satisfy people who wish to remain as trustees over their little fiefdom?
     
    ross, ghost, jon5051 and 3 others like this.
  10. Big Al

    Big Al Nat Pres stalwart Staff Member Moderator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2009
    Messages:
    16,962
    Likes Received:
    15,591
    Location:
    1016
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    That's fascinating. Written by someone with nothing to do with the WSR - meaning independent, I guess - and endorsed by the three key players in the associated organisations.

    It's called a shared vision but having read it, can someone explain what it is a shared vision of? Neither the 'evolution' or 'revolution' options contain a vision statement of anything, just a list of people who would like to see the WSR move forward and a general 'working together' statement of intent.

    I really do not see how this moves anything forward. A vision statement should at least include:
    - has a set of goals that the Railway intends to work towards:
    - a description of the challenges (obstacles, if you like) that need to be overcome to achieve that;
    - the steps that will be taken in the short term to move things forward;
    - the milestones that will be the visible evidence of progress;
    - the nature of the funding that will be necessary to support this and how the Trust(s) will help.

    It's great to see three people putting their names to something that they agree with but I have to say that it all reads as "doing what we've always done but doing it more together".

    It's worth remembering that:
    "If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got.” (Henry Ford)

    Anyway, good luck with that. It all looks uphill to me and I don't mean to Crowcombe.
     
    Miff, Bluenosejohn, MattA and 15 others like this.
  11. MellishR

    MellishR Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    5,647
    Likes Received:
    3,356
    The latest document includes the phrase "hostile merged charity". Why would the merged charity be "hostile", and to whom? And how would the Bailey brand-new charity be any different if it inherits the present charities' aims (which it must do if they are themselved to be wound up)?

    Edit: corrected punctuation.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
  12. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Messages:
    10,332
    Likes Received:
    5,957
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Never you mind
    Location:
    31A
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    I’m thinking more of the definition of insanity, do the same thing over and over again and expect a different result.
     
  13. Piggy

    Piggy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2020
    Messages:
    199
    Likes Received:
    254
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Somerset
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    Yes I am an active volunteer
    WSR ..... Will Someone Realise ? WAR ........ Will Anyone Remember ?
     
  14. martin1656

    martin1656 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2014
    Messages:
    14,495
    Likes Received:
    8,799
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    St Leonards
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    As I said in my post, all questions, no answer's, To be frank, perhaps revolution may be the only answer, clear away the old completely, if a merged charity came out of it, and those who are not acceptable to the membership didn't get elected, surely that's the members verdict, it may not please those with a domain to control, but let the members speak, I see nothing wrong with the trustees of both charities if they merge, setting out the aims and then standing down, and offering themselves for re election, rather than saying no one can stand.
    Part of me does wonder, this new charity, is it only if the PLC gets the leadership ,, it wants in charge, of it, ie most likily its selves? because, if you look at it, they won't accept a merged existing charity because they fear it will be hostile towards them, and want to hold them to account so therefore they must want one headed by someone who they see as an ally , possibly someone who they can control.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
    ross likes this.
  15. 35B

    35B Resident of Nat Pres

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2011
    Messages:
    15,805
    Likes Received:
    12,777
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Grantham
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    So a robust defence of an approach, but no clear vision of what it may lead to, or clear statement of how it will be converted into reality.

    In the context of what was said not long ago by the plc, an effective choice of letting the long grass grow, or risking the uncertainties of revolution, knowing that the plc will with the blessing of both charities’ chairman use its power as landlord against those who try.

    Heads, and the existing arrangements stay for too long, with tolerance of a corporate direction that has proved incapable of delivering operations this year; tails, and the promise of better but at the cost of more fighting. Hobson’s choice.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    ghost and MellishR like this.
  16. martin1656

    martin1656 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2014
    Messages:
    14,495
    Likes Received:
    8,799
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    St Leonards
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    How long before the Council as the railway's landlord's decide this can't go on, and gives the PLC notice to quit and then offers to interested parties to tender for the operation of the line, ? for instance, could the council turn to say the P&D, or the SDR or any other management team to come in run the railway on it'd behalf, if it runs out of patience with the WSR plc?
     
  17. Bayard

    Bayard Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2015
    Messages:
    1,395
    Likes Received:
    2,952
    Gender:
    Male
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Of course, it's not what Mr Bailey says that's interesting, it's what he doesn't say, most notably, when this Evolution is supposed to happen. No-one has expressed a view on this timing, except the Plc who have said "sometime, but not now, wait until we have the railway running again". Of course, then everyone will be really busy, so that won't be a good time either. The choice of alternatives is very apt, though. First we have Evolution, a gradual process over many generations, so slow as to be hardly noticeable. Alternatively, we have Revolution, a rapid upheaval that is over very quickly, whether it succeeds or fails. Can we afford to wait for evolution to take place?
    The other main point of note is oligarchy versus democracy. John Bailey is on record as pointing out that neither of his preferred organisations, charities and private companies, are democracies. This "shared vision" is a vision of the bosses, the chairmen of the three respective organisations. It is not democratic. It is more of the same model of having a few people in charge and the rest to do as they are told. The challenging organisation comes largely from the rank and file of the volunteers and the attitude of the bosses reads very much as "how dare they?" This "them and us" attitude goes way back in the WSR. I've only ever volunteered on the WSR, so perhaps a poster from another railway can say what it's like there, but I would really not be surprised if this isn't the root cause of the West Somerset Disease.
    All in all, a disappointingly biased document from someone who was supposed to be impartial.
     
  18. Matt37401

    Matt37401 Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2014
    Messages:
    10,332
    Likes Received:
    5,957
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Never you mind
    Location:
    31A
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Wasn’t it Edwin Starr who asked what war was good for?
     
  19. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2018
    Messages:
    2,862
    Likes Received:
    5,774
    Location:
    Here, there, everywhere
    Heritage Railway Volunteer:
    No I do not currently volunteer
    Absolutely nothing.... HUH!
     
    Forestpines and Matt37401 like this.
  20. MellishR

    MellishR Part of the furniture Friend

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2009
    Messages:
    5,647
    Likes Received:
    3,356
    A radical suggestion! It would not be easy, because a new Light Railway Order would be needed before trains could run again, but they're not going to be running for a while anyway. Considering the many pages of discussion of the validity or otherwise of the PLC's eviction of the WSR Trust, can anyone state with authority what grounds might entitle the Council to evict the PLC if the Council were so minded?
     

Share This Page