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West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. Pete Thornhill

    Pete Thornhill Part of the furniture Staff Member Moderator Friend

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    Correct, they cannot post but can view the thread as you do not need to be a member to view the section of the forum this thread resides in.
     
  2. MellishR

    MellishR Part of the furniture Friend

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    Can someone clarify what "the PLC initiative" in the third paragraph means? Is the whole project regarded as being at the initiative of the PLC? Or has the PLC developed a more detailed plan than the Bailey outline, and if so who is allowed to see it?

    It is slightly surprising, but very reassuring, that the S&D Trust (a) is still there as a member of the PDG and (b) agreed with the other members about the plan.

    Thirdly: what is the relevance of the picture*?

    Edit: * In post 32355
     
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  3. Triumph 2500S

    Triumph 2500S Member

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    In WSR terms Alex it is "here's what we're going to do" and remember the Chairman of the PDG is a plc Director and a Trustee of the WSSRT so hardly suitable for that role.

    It should be encouraging news but it could be exactly the opposite!

    This could fit well with the perceived plc Agenda!
     
  4. Triumph 2500S

    Triumph 2500S Member

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    Perhaps someone present at the meeting could answer that point - at least two of them post here!

    The picture came with the post for some unknown reason
     
  5. aldfort

    aldfort Part of the furniture

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    So PDG endorse the idea of structural change that places the WSR plc inside a parent charity.

    I will admit I thought long and hard about what PDG should say as did everybody. PDG felt it was better to say something than to say nothing.

    You cannot subsume a company into a new charitable organisation without the agreement of a majority of the shareholders.
    4 Shareholders (those with the largest combined holding, around ~ 25%) are represented at PDG and all present understood this point.
    The release clearly says shareholders will be consulted as a next step. (Not the final step.)
    Those representing membership charities will need to consult with their member organisations as a proposal emerges.
    If a majority of shareholders feel as the members of PDG feel then change will be simpler. If they do not then it won't or indeed may never happen at all. We face a year of intensive discussion and debate. This debate cannot be carried out on social media. Those who belong to the railway family either via freinds groups, or by virtue of volunteering, or station groups or WSSRT or WSRA membership, or who are shareholders all have a voice in the process. All parties including the local community have a method to contribute their views as both a county councillor and a local councillor sit on PDG.
    Are there other ways of doing this - yes there are. Many of the alternatives might be viewed as hostile by some. This process will hopefully proceed by consensus. It also sets a time limit to the discussion phase as it commits to have something ready for the 2021 AGM's if at all possible. The status quo will persist if it does not meet this target.

    When there is something substantive to say as the process moves forward I am confident it will be anounced. There are plenty of ways to offer practical help as we embark on this journey for those who feel they could.


    BTW - I have no idea why the WSSRT have a picture with this announcement on their web site. The WSRA don't. :) Is a picture important?
     
  6. bluetrain

    bluetrain Member

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    Your crystal ball seems to make accurate predictions.

    http://www.wsr.org.uk/news.htm#2177
     
  7. Triumph 2500S

    Triumph 2500S Member

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    Well done for that post Mike it is a step in the right direction and my expectation of a positive result has been raised as a result

    but..........

    and there is always a but are you going to set up a Working Party with a Completely New and Independent Chairman who will invite ALL Interested Parties to send delegates? This is in my opinion is paramount.

    We would then all be happy to let you get on with it but would obviously not expect you to discuss on here or anywhere else on social media

    I hope you fully appreciate that we are rapidly approaching make or break time if we are going to save the WSR as it was originally envisaged, but I am sure you do anyway - personally!
     
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  8. Greenway

    Greenway Part of the furniture

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    The PDG report made interesting reading: unanimity, somethings rare concerning the WSR, but good to read it.
    A very mixed bag of bedfellows, for sure, but lets give them a sporting chance and not look for monsters under the bed! ;)
     
  9. jnc

    jnc Well-Known Member

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    A bit of 'management-speak' there, but I guess it's OK. I was going to say one ought to decide where one is going, before trying to work out how one gets there, but I guess there is agreement on the general destination (to have the PLC shift to being a subsidiary of a parent body).

    It's not clear to me if there is similar wide agreement on the exact nature of the parent body; the announcement speaks of a "charity", but that term can cover a lot of ground. The thing I'd like to know is how major a role the views of the 'membership' of the WSVR family, as individuals, will have. In an organization which is heavily volunteers, intelligent management will take their views very prominently into account in their thinking. Perhaps obviously, this can be done with almost any formal structure; but the past history of the WSR (as a whole, not just the PLC) leaves me feeling that it needs to be more formal at this point. A bit of 'skeleton' to hold things upright until the atrophied 'muscles' of broad influence on policy gain some strength. The thing the WSR must avoid, if the line is to be saved, is leadership who think who think they can go off on their own and decide what to do. The WSR has had several painful and unfortunate experiences of this in the 'family': first, the WSRA, under the 6; and now the PLC.

    I sincerely hope that this reorganization will succed, and that this crown jewel of the preservation world can be saved, and move forward into a bright future.

    Noel
     
  10. Bayard

    Bayard Part of the furniture

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    The cynic in me fears that there are those that, even now, are working towards being in a position to retain that privilege. John Bailey's views on here about democracy weren't exactly encouraging.
     
  11. jnc

    jnc Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure exactly what you meant there: if it was just 'the entirety of this decision cannot be made by social media', I wholly agree with you. But I do think social media can have a useful role, however. It's a new thing in the world, this communication medium, and we are all still learning how to live with it, and make productive use of it, but I do think it can be a useful channel for discussion among those who are active on it - and more productive discussion would not go amiss on the WSR, I feel fairly certain!
    I wouldn't limit it to just those groups (although clearly they must be the core). The wider world of heritage rail enthusiasts, as exemplified here, need to be part of it too - because the line's financial needs are such that, as previously discussed, they cannot be entirely met from local sources, and so that wider world will have a role to play at the WSR.

    The Internet taketh away (in the form of all the ashes dumped on the PLC over recent goings-on), but it also giveth! :) Let's all hope that in the future, we'll see more scope for the latter, and less need for the former.

    Noel
     
  12. 35B

    35B Resident of Nat Pres

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    I'll disagree slightly with that. The structure of the WSR is rightly something for the WSR to work on, and to seek to establish; it may well be that a lot of the difficult conversations are better held in private than the glare of publicity. However, what this and other threads have made clear is that when considering change, those doing so must consider the world away from the Minehead branch, and how what they are creating will be sustainable for the future without creating fuel for external discussion in a couple of years' time. That should, nay must, include engaging with their counterparts at other railways to understand how they make things work, and what they'd try to avoid. In particular, I'd suggest that it includes particular focus on other railways that have overcome major internal divisions (the MHR comes to mind), and those that have undergone significant structural change (the GCR comes to mind), and what they did to achieve that change.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2020
  13. martin1656

    martin1656 Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    This really is the last chance saloon, foul it up, put personal agenda's first, and you will lose the railway, it's as stark as that
    Who ever becomes the chair of this new charity, has to be untainted from whats gone on, and they have to be a person who can appeal to everyone, not just their own supporters, so it stands that those presently in charge, should stand aside and give support, not moan from the side lines, If someone feels they can't, then go elsewhere, those who become the new board, and trustees, also have to appeal to those who are not their friends, but to everyone who has the railway at heart, This clearly must Rule out those currently on the PLC Board, and some trustees from the supporting charities that are too closely linked with the PLC's policies, Only a fresh start now will have any chance of success .
     
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  14. jnc

    jnc Well-Known Member

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    Well, I did say "they must be the core", so I'm not sure we do disagree!

    Hopefully, the WSR family will get it right, and the rest of us can just shut up and leave them to it! :)

    Noel
     
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  15. gwilialan

    gwilialan Part of the furniture

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    I would like to see regular updates as the proposals are firmed up and progress made. - Otherwise, I'm afraid, I'd just look at this as the Plc using weasel words and managing to delay doing anything at all for yet another year. It's about trust and no, I wouldn't trust the current Plc Board as far as I could throw them...

    Actions speak louder than words. When I see positive action then they may start to restore some trust.
     
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  16. rodders154

    rodders154 Member

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    I have always said that I think any intimidation & harassment by anyone to anybody is 100% wrong I have never said otherwise. It seems that one of your 10 would be trustees doesn't seem to understand this and has threatened another person on the railway with legal action for defamation(put on notice is the phrase used in the email) and I really think that they ought to reread their posting and withdraw the threat made. This information is gaining wider audience around the volunteers an many are feeling disgusted by the action especially with concerns to the person it is aimed at. I condemn all harassment and threats will you do the same, including the on by your friend.
     

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  17. gwilialan

    gwilialan Part of the furniture

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    So you say "...intimidation & harassment by anyone to anybody is 100% wrong..." but then you say that anyone standing up for themselves against intimidation & harassment by threatening legal action because the intimidation is untrue is also wrong...?

    Please make your mind up. Either you are against all intimidation & harassment to the point where those so treated are free to take any action required to defend themselves or you are just paying lip service against intimidation & harassment and saying that no one should defend themselves.
     
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  18. Bayard

    Bayard Part of the furniture

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    Ok, then please will you specifically condemn the harassment applied to the 14 candidates for a WSSRT trustee position, harassment which was clarified by the candidates in their statement of the 14th September, bearing in mind your post 30634:
    where you appeared to be crowing about its success, or are you sticking by your position up until now that either this somehow wasn't harassment or is a figment of their overheated imaginations and the five that withdrew somehow suddenly thought better of it?
    In any case, we only have your word for it that the case you cite involves the WSR, or exists at all, given that you never appear to miss a chance to put the boot into the individual concerned.
    This post is a classic example of what has brought the WSR to the position it is in now, vis a vis social media and public relations, the playing out of personal vendettas in the guise of concern for the railway.
     
  19. 35B

    35B Resident of Nat Pres

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    Details!
     
  20. staffordian

    staffordian Well-Known Member

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    Call me stupid, but I can't for the life of me see what you're banging on about.

    All I see in the post you append an image of is an assertion by one of our respected contributors that any form of intimidation and threat is best avoided, won't go down well and it's best to sigh and move on. Or in other words, rise above it.

    And still no position or answer regarding the alledged intimidation of the prospective trustees who felt they had no option but to withdraw.

    Interesting IMHO and I know who it says most about.

    Edited to add: If you are perhaps alluding to something we know nothing about, then to me, the image you included simply reinforces that maybe the person involved has extremely good reason to feel the need to respond to some sort of harassment or accusation, the very thing you say you abhor?

    But as you merely hint and suggest, maybe we will never know.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2020

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