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West Somerset Railway General Discussion

Discussion in 'Heritage Railways & Centres in the UK' started by gwr4090, Nov 15, 2007.

  1. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    Indeed :)
     
  2. Greenway

    Greenway Part of the furniture

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    Those of us that were regulars in the armed forces remember conscripts. Most accepted their current position but many made their lives and others a misery with the "don't want to be here, can't wait to get out" attitude. :D
    I expect some here were conscripts and had their 'chuff graphs".
     
  3. burmister

    burmister Member

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    As a shareholder you were entitled to see a copy of a report into this incident done by an external consultant. However the contempt WSR Chairmen, boards and management have had for their shareholders is not new - it goes back to before this time. I had to make a fuss and was eventually sent the report which was complied by an external consultant. Basically it said the then consultant civil engineer realised time was running out fast for the ancient track and used a Network rail grinding team at favourable training rates, to put a better Rail head profile, as far as they were able, to allow wheels to ride better through curves and straights to reduce contact wear and extend the remaining life of the track. His mistake was not to follow up after grinding and take any inside corner edges left off after the head grinding hence the bigger longer wheelbase Locos suffered accordingly. The report also made an attempt to get at underlying reasons and highlighted bad blood between civil and loco departments as well an ineffectual management structure over these heads of departments. Changes were made and the consultant civil engineer was given the boot and the position taken in house however the underlying reason as to why the grinder was brought in ie old track wearing out, was ignored, resleepering was undertaken yes but no meaningful rerailing was done for many years. With hindsight you could argue the grinding kept the old rails alive so it was the right thing to do at the time but the time gained was not used by the Board in an appropriate manner as regards planning for line renewals.

    One observed as a shareholder is that the policy of longer trains regardless of load factors pulled by heavier longer wheelbase Locos simply continued on the original rails and track bed designed and laid for lighter trains in GWR and BRW days. I for one am not at all surprised it has all come tumbling down in a worn out heap, with the inaction it has been on the cards for a decade.

    One can foresee two models for preserved railways long term, for example the NYMR SVR G&WSR models of heavy infrastructure maintenance and renewals suited for heavy Locos , trains and passenger loadings or the Opposite model of Keith and Dufftown of accepting less Passengers on cheap as chips to run light weight DMUs which do not wear the rails out. BR did this with the Far North and Kyle line getting rid of locos and heavy coaches for lightweight DMUs was predicted to extend the existing track life by decades. Seems to me reading the annual reports over the years the WSR kidded itself it was in the premier league and not the second, its problem has always been and will continue to be its rather too long for expensive Locos , steam and Diesel, needing high maintenance high expense track and infrastructure for the realistic passenger loadings needed month in month out to support such dreams.

    Brian
     
  4. Greenway

    Greenway Part of the furniture

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    Wasn't a great part of Somerset under water at the tine of the Danish raids?
    It still is from time to time it seems.
     
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  5. RailWest

    RailWest Part of the furniture

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    .....indeed, IIRC the sea at times could stretch inland almost as far as Langport, which no doubt is why the Vikings arrived by boat rather than by rail. These days of course it would probably be by 'bustitution' instead :)
     
  6. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    I can relate to your experience on a different line. There were a group of volunteers who took it upon themselves to decide who was in and who was out. They made the time of anyone whose face fit didn’t absolutely miserable. They took great pride in all the people they had run off the railway.

    For me, volunteering was supposed to be fun and a break from routine at a line I had grown up with. It was not local to me so I had to make an effort in time and expense to volunteer. Sadly, it was a poisonous place full of cliques. So like you I walked away.

    There are consequences, loss of volunteers, loss of financial support, and future volunteers.

    But to take this point back to HR, the line didn’t have an HR policy, and even if they did they weren’t going to enforce it because the offenders were well connected and well protected.

    I will say that I don’t think this problem is limited to heritage railways. Some people just seem to get validation out of exerting their little bit of power over others.
     
  7. Greenway

    Greenway Part of the furniture

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    The post by Brian adequately sums up the WSR and its dilemmas.
    It also highlights the predicament besides, the financial catastrophe, that the present PLC Board has inherited.
    It would seem that all groupings on the WSR were oblivious to the state of the line and its past governance. Lack of focus I suggest due to the constant strife which took peoples eyes of the reality around them. It does appear that Brian hits the nail on the head when he says that the line was kidding itself about its ranking in the preservation world.
     
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  8. ikcdab

    ikcdab Member Friend

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    It's a sad story. No matter whether a person is a volunteer or paid staff, they should be treated with respect and dignity equally. A well motivated and happy employee/volunteer is a productive and reliable one. I tried to live this value during my working life and my time as WSR chairman, others will know how successful this may or may not have been.
    Again, irrespective of the status, there have to be constraints. We might expect volunteers to wear a uniform and certainly comply with the rules and regulations. A volunteer may roster themselves for a particular duty and then they must fulfil that. It's no good volunteering to man a signalbox and then at 8am deciding not to turn up, because then the trains don't run. The obligations and respect runs both ways. Following the rules is essential for all staff, and if you don't want to follow the rules, then you may have to go to another railway. But the organisation must demonstrably value and respect staff. Although there can be slip ups, I think the WSR is good at this. Several years ago I was very late turn sugnalman at BL. It must have been around midnight when the GM appeared at the door to thank me for turning out and checking I was ok. A simple gesture but one which I still remember today. Also, more recently witnessed by the various thank-you messages we see on HOPS.
    Ian C
     
  9. andrewtoplis

    andrewtoplis Well-Known Member

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    I would agree with this - HR policies don't need to be phonebook sized documents of every possible situation, just clear outlines, simple processes and a willingness to carry them out!

    FYI I make no comment on the WSR in all this, I've never even been...
     
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  10. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    I seem to remember comments from @Robin Moira White about the poor state of the track some years ago. I am no railwayman but I did see a few things that didnt look to clever to me
     
  11. johnofwessex

    johnofwessex Resident of Nat Pres

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    Here it is from 2017, somebody knew about the state of the track even if she was a prophet without honour. The quote has not worked properly but its @Robin Moira White

    #7252 4.10.17
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 1, 2020
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  12. Monkey Magic

    Monkey Magic Part of the furniture

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    Indeed. I would emphasise that it was a very small minority who treated others so badly. There were very many, kind, generous and fun people, but when you get to the point where you say are saying ‘I hope x isn’t there this weekend’ then you know it is time to move on.

    My view these days of the line I was involved in is akin to how you remember a first love, you remember the good times, you don’t dwell on the bad things, you are pleased for them when you hear that things are going well for them, sad when you hear bad news about them, but you have no desire to ever go back.

    #########

    Various people have mentioned J.B.Snell. He was a fairly prolific letter writer to railway magazines. He seem to have a strong (uncompromising) view on everything is my main recollection of his contributions. To my eyes some of his ideas seemed a bit ‘out there’.
     
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  13. Andy Moody

    Andy Moody Member

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    I have found the few photo's I took on the 18th July 2018 including one of "Ravingham Hall" moving off shed after taking water/servicing and I am pretty much
    certain that in doing so it had to pass over the AHBL to enable 6960 to stop behind the inner home to reverse onto it's train, which of course meant the barriers
    lowered twice as a result.
    If my memory is correct, Seaward Road or is itWay, is located a short distance the Dunster side of the signalbox, I would have thought especially if a third party is paying for the renewal that a short spur could be included? and YES, I'm aware that that would involve relocking part of Minehead Box.
    And probably going into the realms of fantasy here, If the existing level crossing is being replaced, why not go the whole hog and put in a full lifting barrier controlled from MH signalbox.
     
  14. Keith Sims

    Keith Sims Member

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    Have just read very quickly the consultation document from the plc. On the face of it there would be a third charity involved in the railway, I suspect controlled by the plc rather than controlling it. Please correct me if I am wrong!
     
  15. Lineisclear

    Lineisclear Member

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    The recommendation was for a new members charity with much wider charitable objects than the two current support charities. That new Charity would have a controlled operating subsidiary. The key document would be an operating agreement between the Charity and its subsidiary which ideally would reserve strategy decisions to the Charity but delegate sufficient decision making power to the subsidiary for it to operate the railway day to day.That subsidiary does not have to be the current PLC. The option for the existing charities would be to carry on independently within the remit of their fairly narrow charitable purposes or , at their choice , to merge into the new Charity.
     
  16. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    Someone with relevant expertise could take the (still suspended?) WSR HR procedures and go through them, marking each bit as applicable to paid staff, volunteers, or both; and then, for those that apply to only one category, to decide whether a different provision is necessary for the other or nothing is needed. How hard would that be?
     
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  17. goldfish

    goldfish Nat Pres stalwart

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    Here you go @johnofwessex
    Simon
     
  18. The members of this proposed new third charity would appear to be only the existing plc shareholders. There is no mention of accommodating the existing charities nor their members within the plc's vision of a new structure. Hardly One Railway. Our worst fears are now finally confirmed.
     
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  19. MellishR

    MellishR Resident of Nat Pres Friend

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    There are some apparent pitfalls with that plan. To mention just two: even more confusion for potential donors as to where to send their money, if the charities take the option of not merging; and the serious business of transferring the light railway order from the present PLC to the new operating company. Those could be overcome in the fullness of time, but the alternative plan, for two of the existing charities to merge and for the existing PLC to come under de facto control by the merged charity and to remain responsible for operating the railway, seems far simpler and therefore quicker.
     
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  20. 60044

    60044 Member

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    I don't think a charity controlled by a PLC would be permissible and I don't think that such a charity could feed funds back into the PLC.
     

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